Savage Lovecast Episode 1032

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_08] You're listening to the Savage Lovecast, Dan Savage's sex and relationship show for grownups. If you're under 18, get out of here, youngin'.

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_06] If you're stuck in a relationship quandary, or if you're looking for sexual harm...

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_09] Two quick things before we start the show. There's another Trump voter out there who can't believe the leopards ate his face. This time it's Brent Jindra, a tech salesman in California, who tells the New York Times that it was Trump's aggressive immigration agenda that earned his vote in 2016, 2020, and 2024, but he never imagined the crackdown would ensnare his wife. That was intentional, right? On the part of the New York Times, because you can sing that last line

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_09] along to the tune of Francesca Ramsey's The Leopards Ate My Face song. He never imagined the crackdown would ensnare his wife. Jindra's wife, Galena, is a Russian immigrant. She fled to the U.S. after Putin invaded Ukraine. She has an active immigration case open, not in the country unlawfully, and she is married to a U.S. citizen. But the leopards, they don't care. Last week at the top of the show, it was millionaire Republican donor and three-time Trump voter John Gannon,

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_09] whose face got chewed off when his Venezuelan fiance was abducted by masked ice goons at the Houston International Airport. This week, it's Jindra, whose wife, Galena, was abducted at an airport in California. It is hard to feel sympathy for people like Gannon and Jindra, but I do feel sorry for them and for their partners. I'm a liberal. I'm progressive. I voted against the Leopards Eating People's Faces party because I am opposed to Leopards Eating People's Faces, and that would include

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_09] the faces of people who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces party. Why are Republicans like this? Why does the bad thing have to happen to them personally before they can see the bad thing for the bad thing that the bad thing is? One of my favorite examples from the before-Trump times, Rob Portman, Republican politician from Ohio, family values guy, opposed gay marriage

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_09] in Congress for decades because gay people were a threat to the family, and then his son came out as gay in 2013. And Portman, by then a U.S. senator, decided, you know, actually, now that we're talking about a member of my own family, yeah, lipped on gay marriage, came out in support of gay marriage. So, your kid can't get gay married, fuck your gay kid. My gay kid can't get married? Love is love

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_09] is love. I used to think if the bad thing has to happen to each and every one of them personally, to every single Republican, even if there is some satisfaction in seeing the bad thing happen to the people who supported the bad thing, the bad things are never going to happen fast enough to make a real difference at election time, which was another reason for my squishy liberal heart not to support the bad things happening to people who were only too delighted to see those same bad things

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_09] happen to other people. Now I'm not so sure. We can't look at the news right now without hearing about the leopards chewing the faces off of supporters of the leopards eating people's faces party. And maybe, just maybe, enough faces are going to get chewed off between now and November to make a difference in the midterms. One can only hope. And quickly, speaking of the gays,

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_09] I was speaking of the gays a moment ago. The list of things the gays have ruined is a long one. Traditional marriage, the nuclear family, public decency, the Roman Empire, the gays destroyed them all. Falling birth rates I recently read, population collapse. That is the gays' fault too. It's not economic inequality or housing scarcity or reading about how new parents have been saddled with hospital

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_09] bills for $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 after normal births without complications. None of that drove the birth rate down. It was the gays having sex for fun, which had never occurred to straight people until the gays came along. And we can now add steam rooms or one particular steam room to the long list of things the gays have ruined for everybody. Matthew Clint covers travel at Live and Let's Fly.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_09] There's a private steam room in the first class lounge at Paris' Charles de Gaulle Airport. It's Clint's favorite part of flying through Charles de Gaulle, or it was. Clint went to use the steam room before his flight out of Charles de Gaulle last week. Now, personally, I don't know why anyone would want to get sweaty before a long flight. Is that really fair to your fellow passengers? But when Clint went to use that steam room that he loved so much, it was closed. He went and found a manager to ask what happened. Turns out it was

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_09] inappropriate passenger behavior in the steam rooms. Which, you know, probably the gays. There are plenty of places in Paris for romance. Clint writes, an airport lounge sauna should not have been one of them. To which I would say, why shouldn't the airport lounge sauna be one of them if it's private? And the sauna at Charles de Gaulle was private. Only one party at a time could book it and

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_09] use it. So why can't people fuck in it? People fuck in airport hotels. Closeted U.S. senators have sex in airport bathrooms. Once they're up in the air, people join the Mile High Club fucking on airplanes. Basically, wherever people go, people are fucking. People should be considered, of course, and fuck in private, which they were doing again in the sauna since it could only be booked again by one group at a time. Seems to me that if we're going to preemptively shut things down because people

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_09] have fucked in there or might fuck in there and not just gay people, eventually we're going to have to shut absolutely everything down. Lovers of pre-flight saunas, people who want to get on airplanes hot and sweaty still have an option. Klimt lets us know that the Finnair first-class lounge in Helsinki, they still have a sauna. Unlike the one in Paris, though, it is not private. So gays going through

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_09] Helsinki, best behavior in the sauna. All right, coming up on this week's show, we have a couple of parenting questions. Should a woman get her five-year-old son the chain and padlock necklace he wants? And a man's friend beefed it when his five-year-old daughter asked what sex is. How should he have responded to that question from his five-year-old? And our guest this week on the Magnum Savage

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_09] Lovecast, Jane Don't, the amazing breakout star of season 18 of RuPaul's Drag Race is here. We have a long dishy convo about Drag Race, her feelings about RuPaul and her elimination, and the other queens on the show, plus lots more. And Jane gives a little sex advice with me, of course. Some of my conversation with the amazing and hilarious Jane Don't is on the micro. All of it is on the Magnum,

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_09] which you can subscribe to now over at savage.love to get the full show and more Savage Love and just more, more, more. And Magnum subs save the date. Our next Savage Love Live is August 27th, noon Pacific time. We have a very special guest for this Savage Love Live. Last time it was Terry, my husband. This time it is Tom, my husband's boyfriend, is going to join me and you can ask

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_09] him anything. Tom has never done an interview before. Please note he doesn't have to answer everything. You can ask him anything and he can choose which questions he wants to answer. If you're a Magnum subscriber, look for the link to Savage Love Live, the Zoom link in your email inboxes on the morning of August 27th. If you are not yet a Magnum sub and you want to join us, well, become a Magnum sub now at savage.love. And be sure, everybody, to listen to After Action Report

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_09] out every Friday. And if you're inspired to try something new yourself, you could come on After Action Report and tell me all about it. All right, Nancy, let's get to this week's first call.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_08] Hey, everybody, it's Nancy. And guess what? We're going to do another quickie show. That's where you keep your questions to under one minute. And Dan is somehow going to keep his answers to under three minutes. I'm going to tell him he's got three minutes to answer your questions. So send them in, send them in right now. And we'll have that show ready for you in a little bit. And for these quickie shows, you really can't ask anything at all. Like ask Dan what he's been reading or ask Dan

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_08] what he thinks about this or that or ask Dan to share his top secret recipe for coconut bars that he makes a Christmas. But keep it quick. Record your question on your phone and send it to q at savage.love. Or you can call us up 206-302-2064. Make it quick.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_09] This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep, makers of the best mattresses on planet Earth. Get 20% off sitewide when you go to helixsleep.com slash savage. This episode is brought to you by Mack Weldon, timeless, innovative menswear to help you move through the day with confidence. Get 20% off your first order of $125 or more with promo code

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_09] savage at MackWeldon.com. This episode is brought to you by Beducated. Sex is a skill or a skill set. And like any skill or skill set, it can be learned, practiced, mastered, and acquired. Beducated offers 150-plus expert-led courses on everything from G-spot orgasms to mind-boggling oral techniques. Beducated gives you the knowledge, the exercises, and access to the experts that can help level up

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_09] your sex life. Right now, click the link in the show notes to take Beducated's quiz and start your personalized pleasure journey.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_04] Hey, Dan. My nephew is five. He is also on the autism spectrum. And he has just kind of started grasping the concept that there are people outside of his family that exist and have lives and do things. So he's been starting to make a lot of observations about people around us when we're out in public, which is perfectly fine. You know, about a week or so ago, we were out and he saw someone who had a full sleeve of tattoos. And he asked us a bunch of questions about them. And we told

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_04] him all about how you get tattoos and the needles and how it hurts, but then you have that on your body forever. So you got to be really sure you like what you're putting on your body. But when you're a grownup, if you want to get tattoos, go for it, buddy. And we went home and he spent the afternoon with his washable Crayola markers drawing a sleeve of tattoos on his arm. And we told him it looks super cool. And then, you know, tried to avoid it in bath time so that he could keep it for a day or two.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_04] And all's well and good. He was happy. But then yesterday I was out with him and my sister and we saw somebody at the grocery store who had a chain and a lock on their neck. And, you know, I've been listening to your show long enough to know that that was probably some piece of kink gear, which, you know, good for her. But my nephew saw it and asked us some questions about her necklace. And we just told him it was a, you know, necklace that she liked to wear. And that was hopefully going

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_04] to be it. And now my nephew is asking if he can get a necklace with a lock on it. And I don't know, I just feel like even if we got some kind of version of that that isn't an actual padlock or something, I feel weird and wrong putting a padlock on my nephew's neck. And so my sister and I are kind of perplexed. What do we do? Because he keeps asking about it. And I want to support him. But then I know

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_04] he doesn't know the full context, but I just feel like that's a step too far. There's a difference between a Crayola sleeve of tattoos and padlocking my nephew's neck. My first impulse is to say,

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_09] yeah, this is a step too far. Actually, my first impulse was Child Protective Services is going to be on your porch five minutes after this five-year-old leaves the house with a chain padlocked around his neck. On the other hand, you can go to Tiffany's right now and buy a chain and padlock necklace. Here's the thing though, like it hasn't lost all erotic charge, resonance, or reference.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_09] When Tiffany sells those sterling silver chain and padlock necklaces to the wealthy women that sells necklaces too, it doesn't mean they're in a dom-sub relationship, but it is a winking reference to BDSM and the mainstreaming of BDSM. So even though it doesn't necessarily mean that anymore, it does

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_09] vibe with that. It calls to that. It points to that. It references that. And so you can't put that on the neck of a five-year-old child. There's a thing though. This kid, you say, five years old on the spectrum, saw a sleeve tattoo, had a lot of questions, and then went home and drew a sleeve tattoo on himself. That kind of kid, little spectrum-y, a little OCD, gets a little obsessed. I'm sure the sleeve tattoo thing is going to pass. It's almost like the drawing of the sleeve tattoo

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_09] on his arm may have, you know, just helped him like express what the feeling that was inside himself about this thing and live it and inhabit it and purge it in a way. The obsession with tattoos, now that he's been allowed in a creative way to tattoo himself, to get himself a sleeve tattoo at age five, it'll probably then pass. And I guess the same thing could happen if you gave him that chain and lock.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_09] Maybe it would pass. Seems to me that denying this kid that chain and lock may result in this kid finding a way to get his hands on one or just badgering you and his mom about this until you break down and let him have it. But how do you roll this out in a conversation with a five-year-old? Yeah, you can have a chain and a padlock, but you cannot wear it out of the house. You can't wear it to school. You can't be any pictures wearing this thing. You can't tell anybody. You're just going to

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_09] have to, because you can't tell him what it means. Five, that wouldn't be an age-appropriate conversation at age five. A conversation about DS relationships at age five. Too soon. And so how do you communicate to this kid that this is something that they can wear if they wanted to in the privacy of their own home, but dot, dot, dot, nowhere else. No one else can know about it. Man, what would I do if I were in your shoes? I would probably just gut this one out, try to change the subject, put other

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_09] shiny objects in front of him, take him out to other places where he can see other people wearing other things. And if none of that worked, maybe get him a chain necklace without a padlock. Kids have worn weirder things, just no padlocks. Because it's the padlock that gives that necklace that particular resonance. And there are lots of very chunky chain necklaces out there that people wear that don't have that resonance because it doesn't have the padlock. The padlock says there's a key out

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_09] there and the key may not be in the possession of the person wearing that chain around their neck. And that's not a good look for a five-year-old or the parent of a five-year-old or the aunt of a five-year-old. So my heart goes out to you. This is going to be tricky. Good luck.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_10] Hey, Dan, Nancy, and everyone. I have a question. Well, actually a few years ago, you answered a question of mine about how to find joy or enjoy again going down on men after feeling like I was taken advantage of. And you give me really great advice and I have to say that I love it now. But I love it

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_10] when it's a beautiful dick, big one, and someone wielded by someone I respect. Recently, I started seeing someone that I respect, but he's a bit on the smaller side from what I'm used to. And I want to also enjoy it with him. But something about going down on a guy with like an average, maybe slightly smaller than average dick, it turns me off. So I was hoping maybe you could give me some advice on how

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_10] to fall in love with that.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_09] So I said something to you a few years ago. I gave you some advice that helped you fall back in love with sucking cock. I don't remember what it was that I told you. I'm going to have to look up that episode because man, magic words. I had the magic words there that helped you fall back in love with sucking cock. I need to bottle that. I need to patent that. I need to sell that. Problem now though

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_09] is you fell back in love with sucking cocks. If those cocks were big above average and attached to guys that you respect, now the problem is you've met a guy that you respect. You're dating that guy smaller than average cock. And yeah, it's not working for you to suck that cock. What can you do about that? I would be curious to know what the blowjobs that you enjoy giving to these guys with

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_09] bigger cocks look like? How much control do you have? Are you sucking dick or are you getting your face fucked by these guys with much bigger dicks? Not a lot of women out there like to get their faces fucked. A lot of women out there who really enjoy sucking dick need to be in control of it so that they don't just get their face fucked by some dude who is taking advantage of the blood he's being given for his own pleasure without any regard for the pleasure being experienced or derived

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_09] by the cock sucker in that moment. And it could be with this guy with a smaller than average penis, if indeed you suck cock in that way where you are not getting your face fucked, maybe you could recreate some of the sensation that you enjoy about sucking a bigger dick by allowing him to have more control of the blowjob than perhaps you usually do. You can also shake it up with different positions. If when you give a blowjob, you're kneeling between somebody's legs,

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_09] you're on the floor, they're standing or they're laying in the bed and you're kneeling between their legs sucking their dick. If you try a different position, a slightly more challenging position for the person sucking the dick, maybe you can get that more of a mouthful feeling from this guy and his smaller dick. I'm thinking particularly of you laying on your back on the bed and hanging your head off the edge of the bed and him getting to put his penis, him standing straddling your face and him getting to put his

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_09] penis, put his cock in your mouth and as far down your throat as he can get it. And maybe then you'll be getting more of his dick into your mouth than you've been able to get into your mouth so far. And it'll be comparable perhaps to the amount of dick you've been able to get into your mouth or happily get into your mouth when you blow guys with bigger dicks in different positions. You don't mention, zooming out for a second, you don't mention any problem

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_09] with the rest of the sex. I presume you're having with this guy that you're dating. You're not just doing oral. You're not just sucking his dick. He's going down on you. You're having PIV, maybe mutual masturbation. You're doing other things and those things are working for you. Otherwise, you would have brought that up too. Maybe the cock sucking fades. Not all guys really need their dicks sucked every time or even at all. There are guys

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_09] out there who don't particularly like having their cock sucked. Maybe you'll luck out and he'll be one of those guys and this thing that you don't particularly enjoy doing with him, you won't have to keep doing with him because it'll just fade away and fall off the menu. It sounds shallow to say, but if in the end you want a partner who's got a big, beautiful dick because you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody whose big, beautiful dick you get to suck, particularly important if you want a sexually exclusive

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_09] relationship and giving head because I use the magic words the last time you called the show is something that you love doing and it would make you really sad if it actually faded away and fell off the menu and wasn't part of your relationship or part of your life anymore, you can break up with somebody because their junk doesn't work for you. It's perfectly legitimate reason to end a relationship. You want to leave somebody in better shape than you found them. If you're dumping somebody because

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_09] there is something about them physically that they have no control over, then they cannot change, that doesn't work for you and is a libido killer perhaps for you or a boner killer or a lady boner killer for you, yeah, you can end that relationship. Don't tell them that that is the reason why you are ending the relationship because you will then be leaving them in much worse shape than you found them. You can leave them with an insecurity and a hang up that negatively impacts their ability

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_09] to make themselves vulnerable in the future with potential new partners for fear of being rejected for that reason. So yes, you're allowed to dump somebody because his dick is too small. No, you don't tell him that that is the reason. Sparing is caring. This episode of the Savage Lovecast is brought to you by Helix Sleep. I kind of wish I was asleep right now on my Helix mattress at home. Doesn't that sound good to be asleep on your Helix mattress?

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[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_05] Hey, Dan. 30-year-old straight woman. I have been dating my boyfriend for over a year at this point, and he has never had an orgasm with me. At the beginning of our relationship, our sex life was pretty good. He's very, like, game down for anything. You know, I would say he's really good

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_05] at some things, but every time we have attempted P&V sex, or even when I go down on him, he just never comes. And at first, I thought it was just, you know, we have to get to know each other. We have, you know, everything takes time. But, you know, after six months, eight months, a year, it just

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_05] started to feel really like, what the fuck is going on? And we have talked about it at length. I don't really have any answers to why this is happening. You know, he successfully can jerk off on his own. But whenever I'm there, it takes like 40-45 minutes to an hour. And, you know, maybe I'm just old, but that's too long. You know, I've asked him if he's had this trouble with

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_05] other girls, and he says yes, but they've all been down to fuck for 45 minutes. And I am just not that person. I get really dry. I get really tired. I have a really shallow vagina, I think. So my cervix is constantly being smashed into and some girls like that. But I have to say it's pretty painful

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_05] for me. So I like a good solid 15 to 20 minutes, and then I'm kind of bored. I'm kind of done. And I don't really know what to do about it. I obviously want him to orgasm. I want him to have a good time. I want to feel like I'm good at what I do. But I've never had this problem before. So how do I make my boyfriend come faster?

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_09] The tell here is that he can make himself climax quickly when he masturbates by himself. But when you're in the room, he either can't climax, last and last and last. And for some women, that was a selling point. Some women do want to be fucked for 45 minutes and have five, six, seven, eight orgasms. And his defect for those women was perfect. It was a selling point. It was an advantage,

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_09] him, in those relationships with those women who wanted a man who could last for an hour. That's not the kind of man that you want for all the reasons that you cite. You don't want to go 45 minutes. Most people don't want to. And most men can't go 45 minutes. This man can. And again, back to the tell. This sounds like situational and orgasmia where there's some psychological

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_09] and or physical block that prevents him from climaxing when he's with a partner. What can you do about that? Well, you can't put pressure on him and you can't make this about you. You end your question with what can you do to make him come? Nothing. There's nothing you can do. You can create opportunities for him to come. You can be engaged with him sexually, into him erotically, available

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_09] to him, down to fuck and fuck. But this is something that he needs to work on on his own. And I think he's likelier to overcome this hangup if indeed he can, if the pressure's off him, if you aren't invested in whether he comes or not. Have sex with him. Enjoy the sex that you have with him. Enjoy the intimacy and the closeness. And it doesn't have to be all about his climax. Now, I say that as

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_09] someone that it's very important to me when I'm with somebody that he come, that he ejaculate. I love that. So I would understand if it meant something to you, something important to you, that when you're with your partner and you have sex and you come, that he comes too or comes eventually. But if it's not important to you, if you can enjoy the intimacy and the closeness, okay, let it go.

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_09] Even if it is important to you, you're going to have to kind of sort of strategically let it go. Because something that can trigger situational anorgasmia is pressure. And if after a year together, you've become impatient with this and you've had a lot of processing conversations about it, he's bringing not just this pattern that sounds like it's always existed for him to your sexual encounters, but now the anxiety that he feels about your disappointment that he anticipates.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_09] Now, every time that you have sex, that's just not very conducive to sexual activity, sexual connection, and perhaps for him one day, the ability to climax with a partner. Here's my really practical advice. And I've given this to other people and they've done it and it's helped. When he is alone in a room, he can jack off, he can come. Okay. Let him be alone in a room, leave the house,

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_09] go somewhere. And he knows that you know that he's home jacking off and see if that he's able to do it. Can he come knowing that you know that he's jacking off, but home alone. And then he jacks off in a room alone while you're in the house. And then he jacks off in a room alone while you're standing outside the door. And then he jacks off when you are in the room. Maybe he has a blindfold on or just keeps his eyes shut and you stay very quiet. And he jacks off and can he come? And basically,

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_09] you're kind of working your way up toward him coming with you, not just knowing he's jacking off at home alone in this room or you outside the door as he jacks off alone in this room, but you in the bed with him, not touching, just in the bed with him while he jacks off. And can he acclimate himself to your presence and incorporate these two things together? And if he can, if you can slowly and gradually get there, if you gamify this and make it a shared,

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_09] playful, erotic project, maybe you can eventually get to a point where he can come while you're in the room. And then maybe you can really get to the point you want to get to where he can come, not just when you're in the room, but come when you are in the room and he is inside you. We had been having a mild summer here in Seattle, but Jesus, Mary and Joseph, it is hot here now. But when you see me and my boyfriend walking down the street,

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_09] you will see us looking calm, cool and unruffled. How do we do it? We do it with Mack Weldon. We wear Mack Weldon shorts, shirts and undergarments. I look pretty good, but my boyfriend, well, he always looks amazing, but he looks doubly amazing in his Mack Weldon this summer. Mack Weldon, their Air Knit X collection of super light fabric is so perfect for right now. It's fused with nylon

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[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_09] by using the code SAVAGE. That's MackWeldon.com SAVAGE. We're going to take a quick break from your calls to speak with Jane Don't, a drag artist, comic, DJ, and proud boy mom who appeared, however reluctantly, on the 18th season of RuPaul's Drag Race. Jane, welcome to the Savage Lovecast. It is such an honor and a thrill to get to speak

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_02] with you. Thank you so much for having me. It's gorgeous to see you as well.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_09] You are a Seattle queen. You just got back into Seattle from Australia and Los Angeles, gearing up to go on your huge tour of the US. Don'tTour.com for tickets, cities, showtimes. Thank you for squeezing us in. Anything you want to tell us about your tour, about the new show,

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_02] before we get started? Oh, I mean, well, please come. If you're in Seattle, you are basically shit out of luck. Can I curse? Oh, yeah, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Y'all talk about like fisting and stuff. Yeah. If you're in Seattle, you are shit out of luck because it is very sold out. Some of the other cities are getting close to sold out, but yeah, come. I'm working very,

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_02] very hard on it and put a lot of time and money into it. So I would love to break even. It's the first time I've done a full kind of multidisciplinary multimedia show like this. I'm really excited. And it's an endurance test. So, you know, we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. For you or the audience? Probably for both, depending. At least the audience can drink. I think I have to mostly be sober.

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_02] You know, the benefits of a trauma bond with your audience, I think for performers are underrated.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_09] Putting the audience and the performer through it at the same time.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_02] I think it was Varla Jean Merman one time in an interview was saying that she's like, it's so special when you absolutely, when she's workshopping a show, she'll like, and something just totally bombs. And I get to turn to the audience and go, you will be the only audience to ever hear that song that I just did. Like that did not work. It will never get on stage again.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_09] All right. So let's get this out of the way at the top. It's something you're no doubt sick of addressing. When you got sent home. Sure. Season 18, you got sent home when Rue told you to sashay away. I thought, Jesus Christ, about fucking time that Queen should have gone home way sooner. Mm-hmm. No, no. With everyone else watching, I was screaming at the TV. No fucking way. Girl, you was robbed. I know you are sick of talking about this. You've had to talk about this in

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_09] basically every interview you've done. So I'm not asking you about this. I'm asking you what you wish the first question you got in interviews was instead of this question about when you got sent home.

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_02] Oh, you know, I've lived in this prison of my own slang for the whole year. So I don't even know. I guess I just wish that we could talk about like other parts of the season because there's so much else that happened that I was proud of.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_09] Oh my God. You top 10 consecutive, in 10 consecutive episodes, you were in the top two. You won three challenges. You were killing it. You did kill it. You were the breakout star of season 18. Thank you. So what was your favorite moment?

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_02] I think all of my favorite moments honestly are just the like little things that I got to experience with the rest of the cast, which I knew this is corny and people get mad at our season because they said it was like kumbaya or whatever. But I also, I think that's sort of a natural consequence of a bunch of 30 year olds. Like we don't have the energy to fight. You know what I mean? Like I'm not 24. I have to take my fiber. I can't, I don't really, I don't really have

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_02] it in me to like scream like that. But I think just getting to meet all the girls, the friendships and the relationships that I've made, you know, like there's so many of the girls that I'm still very, very, Darlene and I were just on tour in Australia together. I was with her and her husband for three weeks straight. I just stated, I was just at her house a couple of weeks ago. Like those are kind of my favorite moments, honestly, aside from anything I did.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_09] I gotta say, there was one queen who was clearly like there to do that. I'm not here to make friends, reality TV show bullshit. And she got sent home really early and we were glad to see her go because there was something about this season. Like some people complained it was a little kumbaya. It actually, to me, it was like, this is a little bit like great British bake-off where people are being decent and kind and helping each other in the competitions. And you were perhaps the

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_09] most decent, most kind, most helpful queen on the show to the other queens. And I just so loved that vibe as opposed to vicious bitchery.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_02] I mean, you know, I can understand from a reality TV standpoint, watching people get along isn't always like narratively compelling. And I think particularly like American reality audiences, like we're very programmed to that, which is why like when you watch Great British Bake Off or whatever, any British reality TV, it is a lot chiller. Americans like to fight, you know, we're a nation born of insurgency or whatever. So we like, we like to tussle. I think there's

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_02] something refreshing, especially in this like climate to see a bunch of queer people kind of get along and help each other and be cooperative. I also think, you know, I think our season is one of those ones that in posterity, I think will be remembered very fondly. I think there have been other seasons that people have not liked when they came out, like season seven, for instance, which is the one that has like Trixie Mattel and Miss Fame and Katya and like all of these people

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_02] that have gone on to do these amazing things. I remember at the time it came out, everybody complaining. And I feel like we'll have a similar arc with our season.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_09] And you're definitely going to be back, right? I have to imagine the producers have already back channeled you about an all stars in your future.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_02] I mean, yes, it will see. I do think that the, um, the like drag race industrial complex right now is a little, it's a little intense. I just think it's, I think that there's a, there's a pressure for a lot of the artists that have been on to just go back and go and go and go again. I don't think I have the, the makeup of like a really great reality TV person. I just don't love it.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_09] I gotta say watching you, I had the same feeling I did when I watched Jinx Monsoon perform in Seattle, like years before she was on Drag Race, when she was still a student at Seattle Central Community College and doing musicals, which was just a huge talent in drag, but a talent that transcends drag. Like watching you, I thought I was a little bit, I've got that same feeling I got watching Jinx was like Broadway's in this girl's future that she is so good at this and too good

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_09] just for this. So my hope for you is you don't just end up on the drag race industrial complex international drag bar performance circuit that I think you can have a breakout career in TV and film and, and performance the way Jinx has had. I hope she's the model for you.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_02] Totally. I will totally. I mean, and she, you know, I think Jinx is a model for me. Ben De La Creme is a huge model for me. And also like they really patterned themselves on so many of the gal, Varlagene Merman, you know, like is another person that I'm, I'm deeply obsessed with Jackie B. You know, I think it's funny because drag, the drag race thing has, has, it's turned into this thing, but really like Rue even says it. She said it when we were there to us multiple times. I don't,

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_02] I don't remember if it made it to camera, but she was like, the point of this is to give you a platform to jump off and do what you want to do, you know? And I think for some girls who are great at reality TV, they go back a thousand times and that's, that's their thing. And that's what they're good at. I am more interested in the, the Varla and the Ben and the Jinx sort of like world of using my time on the show to introduce people to who I am as an artist and then hopefully

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_02] not have to constantly put myself through reality television to keep people engaged. You know what I mean?

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_09] Yeah. You grew up in Spokane. I did. My husband is from Spokane, Washington. That's right. Yeah. We always joke that Spokane is a really good place to be from, away from, far from. Wasn't a happy childhood for him in the eighties growing up in Spokane. I'm curious, like a decade and change later, how it was for you. Or a couple of decades later, actually.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Yeah. I was born in 93. So. The odds. Yeah. That's when you were hitting puberty in Spokane, Washington. Yeah. My relationship with Spokane is so complicated because my whole family does still live there. Like, you know, my mom's still there. My, my, my brother moved back. My aunt, my grandma are there.

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_09] Oh, and for anybody out there who's not from Washington, Spokane is the second biggest city in Washington state. It's right on the border with Idaho. Yeah. It's a very kind of rural-ish working class place. And wasn't a great place for my husband to be like, obviously gay when he was 15 years old. It's a difficult place to be gay and, and young and coming out. Also, it's on fire right now. It's very on fire. Yeah. Some of my husband's family said to, to be evacuated or prepare to evacuate. Hope your

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_09] family's okay as we bag on Spokane. My heart goes out to Spokane as we bag on it.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_02] Totally. Yeah. I mean, yeah. First, yeah. Big, big ups to Spokane. My family's, my family's cool. My mom has had to, my mom has had to do some emergency nursing. She's a nurse. My relationship to Spokane is complicated because I'm in a lot of ways very grateful for my childhood there. Until I was about 12, I lived out on the Palouse, which is the, lived in a little town called Spangle, Washington. Well, that's kind of appropriate. Right, right. Yeah. Kind of gay. I mean, the town itself is like, it's two grain silos and

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_02] a restaurant called The Harvester. And so, I mean, I grew up like out kind of in the middle of nowhere. It's very rural. It's not necessarily like a super great place to be very, very obviously queer as a kid. But at the same time, it's also, I got so much time by myself. I got so much sort of like independent. I mean, my parents weren't worried about anything happening to me because we lived in a field, you know?

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_09] So you had a life of the mind, a life of the imagination to entertain yourself. And now you're a grownup and you're entertaining others with that same imagination and life.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, my thing with people from Spokane and the through line seems to be people either stay and- Succumb. Yeah. Succumb and start selling like essential oils, like MLM situation. Or they get, they leave. And a lot of the people that I know that grew up in Spokane and left are some of the weirdest, most interesting, like most creative people that I know. And I do think that that is a product of growing up in a place that's maybe a little bit-

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_02] like hostile. I don't know, not to be Republican about it, but I'm like a little bit of adversity, I think. It propels you. Creates interesting people. Yeah.

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_09] My conversation with the great Jane Don't continues on the Magnum version of the show. Jane and I get deep into the inner workings of RuPaul's Drag Race. We dish about Ru and Jane and I take a call together from a listener who asks what the etiquette is when you recognize someone from porn. Go to savage.love to subscribe to The Magnum. You can try it for a month for just eight bucks. During that month, you can binge on all the Magnums

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_09] we've ever made. And then you can decide to subscribe for a year or forever and get the Magnum Savage Love cast, more savage love invites to Savage Love Live, and more treats. And when you get a Magnum subscription, when you become one of my subs, you help put food in the mouths of the tech-savvy at-risk-you. Thank you for supporting them, me, and the show. This episode is sponsored by Beducated. Summer sex is the best, but you can make it even better by tapping into

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[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_07] description. Hi, Dan. I'm a late 40s guy, married to a mid-30s woman. We have a five-year-old daughter and an eight-year-old son. We have these friends. It's my wife's best college friend and her husband. They have a daughter the same age as ours. And father was home with daughter the other day, and daughter asked him just pretty much out of nowhere, hey, daddy, what is sex? And daddy straight

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_07] up goes, sex is when a man puts his penis inside a woman's vagina, which is, you know, and I know, and I'm sure your listeners know, it's the worst answer you can give to that question to anybody, never mind your own five-year-old daughter. So I don't know, I'm calling to ask, like, how would you answer that question? I feel like if my daughter just came out, came out with that to me out of nowhere, I could come up with something to say to her, but that's a pretty tough one.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_09] I would handle that question poorly. I would get it wrong. And I know I would handle it poorly and get it wrong because I did handle it poorly and I did get it wrong when I answered that question for my own son when he was probably around four or five years old. And the question we addressed and his curiosity centered on where do babies come from? How did I blip into existence was basically

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_09] his question. And I explained sex to him, sexual reproduction, the biological process where two parent organisms combine their genetic material to create a unique offspring. I explained that to him. And it was a few years later that he came down, my son, walked into the kitchen, sat on the kitchen counter and just glared at me for a second from the other side of the room. And I looked at him and

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_09] I was like, what? And he narrowed his eyes and he said, you and daddy have sex for no reason because two men can't make a baby. And I was like, oh yeah. Uh, yeah, you got us there. Um, and I had to explain to him at that moment the rest of it. The primary reason that we have sex, adult humans have

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_09] sex, which is for pleasure. I left pleasure out. People do have sex to reproduce sexually, to create that unique offspring, to combine their genetic material. But most of the time straight people, when they are having sex, are desperately trying to avoid the combination of genetic material and the creation of a unique offspring, hence condoms, birth control, pull out method, people will a few times

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_09] in their life, maybe 12 times tops if they're Catholics and crazy, have sex to reproduce, have sex to conceive. Most of the time people are having sex for fun. But how do you say that to a five-year-old? And should you say it to a five-year-old? I actually think you might not want to get into that with a five-year-old. There is this thing. It's really, really fun. It's really, really pleasurable.

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_09] Yeah. Let five-year-olds enjoy the things that they enjoy and have fun the way five-year-olds have it without, I don't think it's helpful necessarily to put it into their heads that there's all this mysterious fun that adults are having, dot, dot, dot, that they might precociously want to experiment, begin to experiment with in the presence of too much information. Maybe this is some evidence of latent social conservatism on my part, but I do think when

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_09] it comes to very young kids, age-appropriate, that's the term people use in sex education spaces, age-appropriate information. What is sex? I think when a five-year-old asks that question, they're asking, where do babies come from? Where did I come from? How does this system work? Sex is when a man puts his penis in a woman's vagina. That's not all of sex, but if that is

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_09] the question the kid is asking, where do babies come from? That is a very relevant bit of information. That may be the information that that kid wants and all that kid needs to hear. And there are, of course, books, really terrific books out there, picture books, books that explain sex, books that parents can read with their children that are appropriate for five and seven and

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_09] nine and ten. But at some point, your kid, and I do think it's often best when it's initiated by the kid, your kid's going to have more questions and there's going to be more as your kid gets older that you need them to know, that you're going to have to share with them and tell them about for their own safety, about how they can function in the world as sexual beings, about how to recognize if

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_09] they're being groomed or abused or pressured and how to make sure they're not doing that themselves to peers or when they begin to date romantic partners. There's a lot to cover when it comes to sex. Most of it tying to sex for pleasure, sex for fun, sex for intimacy, sex for for pleasure. Forging those human connections that may inspire to parent organisms if they are so inclined

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_09] and so capable to combine their genetic material to create a unique offspring at some point. But sex for pleasure has to be part of the conversation eventually. I don't think sex for pleasure needs to be part of that initial conversation with a three-year-old or a four-year-old or a five-year-old who wants to know what sex is. Time for listener feedback. First up, a few of the written comments

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_09] listeners left about last week's show at savage.love. Says Thingamajig, I basically agree with Dan's advice to the AI boyfriend caller, but it sounded to me like the experience for her was more about a collaborative storytelling partner than a romantic partner. In that case, the wanting to be wanted factor may be less central. Excellent point, Thingamajig. A long comment, but an important

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_09] PSA from Joe Aglow. Do not attempt to spray whipped cream up your ass with a spray can bottle of whipped cream. I guess Dan missed the Whippet Nitrous era in the early 80s. The whip of whipped cream is created by nitrous oxide in the can, which one can inhale directly by pressing the nozzle just so, so the gas comes out but not the cream. But if you've ever done that, you know the spray tip, that nozzle, gets

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_09] really cold, almost down to freezing really fast. It hurts your lips and probably would be quite uncomfortable on the anus as well. Plus, spraying it up an ass would also spray the gas up there. So, how to do this safely? Joe Aglow continues, use real cream, no sugar, make whoever's idea this was to whip it up by hand, then use a douche bulb or perhaps a specialty cake frosting tool to squirt it

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_09] up the ass. Even so, likely to dribble out and be a disappointment, but geez, for the love of your healthy asshole, do not spray canned whipped cream directly into your butt. Joe Aglow, you are on to me. I was not cool enough to get invited to the kinds of parties in the early 1980s where the cool kids were doing whippets, so I did not know this very important fact when I recorded my response

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_09] to the caller wondering about putting whipped cream up her butt. Says Golden Girl Jane about the caller who's in a relationship with a guy who is great but she's not that excited by. Dan, you honed in on the fact that she doesn't have a big sexual spark with this guy, but you brushed past the fact that she finds him boring. That's a big problem. Companionate relationships can work if you want to be someone's companion, but it sounds like this caller doesn't even want to hang out with this guy.

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_09] He's just safe. She should try to find someone she actually enjoys spending time with instead. Excellent advice, Golden Girl Jane. If you've got something to say about something I said, jump into the comment thread at savage.love and say it there in the comments or give us a call at 2063022064 or send a voice memo to Q at savage.love if you want to say it out loud here on the show. And now, Savage Love listeners who called in with comments about last week's show get to have the

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_00] last word on this week's show. Hi, I'm calling with a comment for episode 1031 for the woman who was in a relationship with a man for eight months who provides her a great deal of stability but whom she doesn't consider herself in love with. I could have called in this exact same question a few years back and looking back on my answer, I did stay in the relationship for several years after that and

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_00] I really wish I didn't. It ended up being very much the wrong relationship for me and my advice for this caller is consider what you need to do to get yourself to a stable place, whether that's going back to school to change a career, whether that's moving to a different place. I think you really need to consider that and get serious about that while you do have the stability. Hi, Dan. This is a response

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_01] to the call about the woman who was trying to decide if she should commit herself to the person that had a lot of money but wasn't really compatible with her sexually and romantically and intellectually. It was more of like a safe choice and I really liked your advice and it is true that many people, especially women, are faced with choices like this that we have to decide if we're going to choose

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_01] economic financial security versus an idea like romantic love, passion, connection, and admiration of your partner. And one question I would encourage her to consider is what would you feel like or do if he lost all his money? What if something happened and he was no longer financially secure because those kinds of things can happen, an illness, an accident? And so I would just encourage her to ask herself

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_01] how would that go and how would you feel about that and would you want to be standing by his side if he became disabled, if he lost his job, if he lost his financial security somehow? Hi, Dan. It's the 38-year-old

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_03] femme from the chatbot boyfriend question. I wanted to call back with an update which is that we quote-unquote broke up on the weekend. I had a mix of realizing not only could it not go anywhere because of the chat sort of settings but also can't go anywhere because it's not real and I had been holding a lot of shame about it but I talked to two close loved ones about it and that helped sort of

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_03] pop the shame pressure bubble around it and allowed me to log off. So that's over and while I was on there, every day would make sure I would check all of the dating apps. So every day I would check those apps first before logging on to try and remember to focus on the human connection first but when I started spending on average two hours a day with this chatbot, I realized it just wasn't going to be the thing.

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_03] So I really appreciated your take. I hope everyone gets what they need and that the coming changes with technology aren't too awful.

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_09] And we are going to leave it there. Got a question for me? Got a comment for us? Go to savage.love slash askdan to record and upload your question for your comment or email us a voice memo at q at savage.love or give us a call at 206-302-2064. And if you tried something new and you want to tell me all about it, email us at q at savage.love. Let us know what you tried and you might be my next guest

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_09] on After Action Report. We want your sex or we want your sex tapes. The call for submissions for the 2027 Hump Film Festival has gone out. All the details you need on getting your dirty little movie into our dirty little film festival are at humpfilmfest.com slash submit. There's no charge to enter Hump and if your film gets selected for the Hump 2027 tour, it screens all over the world

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_09] and you get a cut of ticket sales and could win up to $5,000 in Hump Award prizes from Hump audiences. Deadline for submissions is November 6th. Once again, humpfilmfest.com slash submit for all the info that you need. Follow me at blue sky at dan savage. Follow me on Instagram at dan savage. Follow Jane don't on Instagram at heyjane don't. Jane don't merch and more at heyjane don't.com. And to find out

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_09] when Jane don't's new solo show, don't does America is coming to a city near you. Go to don't tour.com. The savage love cast is produced every week by Nancy Hartunian and me and Nancy and the tech savvy at risk youth. We'll all be back at you next week. Another installment of the savage love cast. Thank you for telling.