Savage Love Episode 1026

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01] You're listening to the Savage Lovecast, Dan Savage's sex and relationship show for grown-ups. If you're under 18, get out of here, youngin'.

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_03] If you're stuck in a relationship quandary, or if you're looking for sexual...

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_04] Reflecting pools, World Cups, Supreme Courts, wars here, there, and everywhere. So much to choose from, so much I could talk about here at the top of the show. If I were a nicer person, I might talk about or give a single solitary fuck about the Trump supporters out there we learned about last week who bought the president's stupid-ass meme coins and lost everything. It's a short and

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_04] predictable story. Trump made billions, thousands of his supporters lost their life savings, some lost their homes, and yeah, I just checked my fuck drawer to see if I had any spares. No spare fucks, as it turns out. No fucks at all in the fuck drawer, no fucks to give. At least not to Trump supporters. The upside to this story, the more money Trump steals from his idiot base, the less money his idiot base, his supporters, have to donate going into the midterms.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_04] The downside, it's not just Trump supporters who are being robbed by that man, we all are. Yeah, no, I'm not going to talk about that. Instead, I wanted to open this week's show with a quick shout out to the actor and race car driver Frankie Muniz. He was the star, is the star, of Malcolm in the Middle. Terrific show. He was terrific in. I really enjoyed the reboot. Muniz made the news last week, news you might have missed with everything else going on,

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_04] when he announced that he and his wife, Paige Price, were getting a divorce after six years of marriage, ten years total together, and one child. The announcement, in a caption posted to Instagram, was accompanied by a video of Muniz and Price dancing in their living room with their son. While it's always sad to see a couple split up, I say this as a child of divorce, always sad to see a couple split up, especially one with kids. This is how you want to see it when you have to see it.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_04] Not at war with each other, not at each other's throats, not tearing each other apart in court, making an effort together to stick the dismount. In his caption, Muniz thanked his wife for her love and support over the years and said that they were still good friends and they were committed to being great co-parents. I've always said that just because a marriage ends doesn't mean that marriage failed. If Muniz and his wife remain friends and publicly pledging to remain friends can help,

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_04] if they can still love and support each other after the split, if they can still dance together, that marriage, their marriage has to be viewed as a success. Lots of marriages end and we need examples in our own lives and in the public eye of what a good divorce looks like. Muniz was attacked by conservatives, particularly by Michael Knowles of the Daily Wire after the Post went out.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_04] Knowles is a far-right, anti-gay, anti-trans, wildly sexist political pundit. And there was, I think, an important tell in Knowles' attack on Muniz, something we should all be paying attention to and tracking. Knowles objected to the video of the couple dancing. He accused Muniz and Paige of celebrating their divorce. But he was, he said, just as offended, just as nauseated

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_04] by the caption, by what Muniz wrote. That caption where Muniz expressed gratitude and affection for his soon-to-be ex-wife, the mother of the son, they will still share. This is the most offensive part, Knowles wrote. It's not enough that we tolerate their sin and vice. They demand we celebrate it. And now here's that tell. Divorce is profoundly evil. Sometimes people do it. There's more we could do to

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_04] limit it, but to ask that we celebrate it beyond the pale. Doing away with no-fault divorce. That's the more Knowles wants the government to do to limit divorce. It's one of the stated goals of the wildly misogynistic conservative movement. It's right up there with banning abortion and access to birth control and repealing the 19th Amendment. I keep harping about this. And for proof that I'm not

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_04] taking crazy pills here, for proof that the rights agenda for American women is husbands you can't leave, pregnancies you can't prevent, and politicians you can't vote out of office, go read Helen Lewis's piece in The Atlantic last month. The men who want women to be quiet, a virulent form of misogyny has become the single most important force holding together the American right. Lewis lays it all out. They do want to repeal the 19th Amendment, ban abortion and birth control,

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_04] and no-fault divorce. It's important to remember that three quarters of divorces are initiated by women. So restricting or banning divorce will disproportionately impact women, trapping women in unhappy and abusive marriages. That is their goal. Knowles and others like him on the right, they don't think married couples should be able to divorce at all. They certainly don't think women

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_04] should be able to initiate divorces when they need to, which is why they objected so loudly to an example. The example Muniz and Paige gave us of a married couple doing divorce right. I'm going to give Muniz the last word here. Responding to Knowles, Muniz said this on Twitter. The original post wasn't to celebrate our divorce, far from it we grieved our divorce. It was to celebrate the fact

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_04] that we are both adults and can handle it like adults moving forward amicably. Everyone is just so used to the hideous mudslinging a lot of couples do at the end of a relationship, so they don't know how to take it when two people are cordial. All right, coming up on this week's show, a polyamorous man is worried that his penis smells like his girlfriend's vagina all the time due to repeated

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_04] exposure. Will his other lovers notice? And a woman accidentally acquired some erotic art that she thinks belongs to a certain gay couple she knows. How can she ask them if this smut is theirs? And on the Magnum, I spoke with Daniel McLaughlin, a sex educator who specializes in hypno kink to educate us all about the misunderstood practice. We promised you a follow-up interview with a hypno kink

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_04] practitioner. That's on the Magnum today. The Magnum is the longer guest-filled show with no ads. You can subscribe to the Magnum or give it as a gift now over at savage.love. All right, let's get to the first call. This episode is brought to you by Aria, an intimacy membership with a personal intimacy concierge to help you and your partner bring true excitement back into your sex life. Right now, Aria

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_04] is offering my listeners $10 off your first month at getaria.com slash savage. This episode is brought to you by VB Health, doctor-formulated supplements that work. To learn more about Load Boost, Drive Boost, and Soaking Wet, and to get 10% off, visit vb.health and use the code savage. This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep, makers of the best mattresses on planet Earth. Right now, for my

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_04] listeners, get 20% off site-wide, 25% off Luxe mattresses, and 30% off Elite mattresses. At

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_00] helixsleep.com slash savage. Hi, Dan, Nancy, and the tech-savvy youth. I am a lesbian in my early 30s, and I have been married for four years now to my beautiful and wonderful wife, who I absolutely love. When we started our relationship like six years ago, we had a really great sex life. It was like the most amazing sex life. And when we do have sex now, even after six years, it is fucking amazing. It

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_00] is everything I waited for. But we just don't have sex that often. I always want sex. Her sex drive is really different, and it has declined in the last, definitely in the last like two to three years. When we do have sex and it's like spontaneous, my wife really doesn't like to plan sex. She does not

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00] to plan sex. So she only likes it when it's spontaneous, but I will, you know, ask and kind of like, oh, you in the mood? And a lot of times she's not in the mood, or, you know, she hasn't showered, or it's been a long day, or our parents are visiting, or God, I've got a big meeting. And it's always like the timing has to be really, really perfect. And it's kind of frustrating.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00] And she says it. She's like, I know. Sorry. Sometimes I'm just like, I know I haven't wanted sex as much as you in the last while. And I'm really sorry about that. I don't know what's up with me. But when we do have sex, it's amazing. And it's like mind blowing. So I'm like, why wouldn't you want that all the time? I'm calling in because I'm like, any advice? Because we do not have lesbian bed death. Because when we have sex, it is amazing. But I just want to have more of it.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_04] It's just a fact, long term relationships, even if the sex is good, frequency tends to decrease over time. What can really derail your sex life is the person with the higher libido getting poisoned by resentment, that you get shot down, that you attempt to initiate. And the answer most of the time is no. And hearing no, getting shot down, yeah, that can

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_04] really fuck with your head, that can make you resent your partner, that can, if you allow it to fester and grow, become a cancer that actually kills your desire for your partner. And then you'll be the one with lower desire than hers because you'll be so angry and annoyed and rejected so often that that begins to tear away at your ego and your sexual self-confidence. So yeah, this is something that

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_04] you two need to work on, work on together and work on honestly. You want more sex than she does. When you have sex, it is great. You can point to the greatness in an effort to get her to want to have more sex than she does. But there's this baseline libido that she has and her baseline is different than your baseline, your baseline libido, a little bit higher set. So how do you make sure that you are

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_04] both happy and content and satisfied in that relationship? I would recommend that you work hard on not succumbing to the resentment that in a way you kind of have a right to feel. And also that you two identify together what might count for you as sex, but for her would just be helping you out. You're hornier than she is. Maybe there are times that she can give you a hand, help a girlfriend,

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_04] help a wife out. I'm talking here, of course, about assisted masturbation. Those times when she hasn't showered or it's been a long day or she's tired or the parents are in the next room or the parents are visiting that maybe instead of the full-blown, amazing, crazy, wall-shaking, bedrocking sex that you do have when you're both on the same page, when you both want it at the same

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_04] time, there's some placeholder sex. There's some kind of, again, assisted masturbation that you two can enjoy together where you get off and not much is expected of her. Not much effort, no penetration, where she just sits her unshowered pussy down on your face, maybe with her clothes still on if she's self-conscious about not being sparkly clean. And you have a wank. You bust out the vibrator and

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_04] you use it on yourself while you enjoy, in a small way, her presence with you in the room, some intimate physical contact that is gratifying for you, but not taxing for her. And the trick when it comes to masturbation to keep that assist coming is that the person who is being assisted doesn't try in the

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_04] moment to upgrade, doesn't go in hoping that their partner will catch a groove and suddenly want to have full sex. Although that is a thing that will sometimes happen. It won't happen though. If the person who asked for the masturbatory assist tries to make it happen, that upgrade to full-blown, crazy, wall-shaking, bedrock, and sex can really only happen in an assisted masturbatory moment

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_04] if the person who's doing the assist initiates the upgrade, which your partner sometimes will because they're being intimate. They're being intimate in a way that's not asking much of them. They don't feel pressured. They feel like they are meeting your need. And that's an important part of it. You have to act like you have to not act like you have to be like you have to be satisfied with

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_04] the assisted masturbation and regard it as good sex and good enough sex for right now to hold you over until the next time she's in the mood and you're in the mood and you can have the crazy, good, passionate sex that characterize the first few years of your relationship. You're in a better place in a lot of couples where the frequency has fallen off and that when you do have sex, it's still as good as ever. And you should be grateful to the sex gods and the lesbian gods

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_04] for that. You're lucky. I know that's hard to hear right now, probably because you're frustrated and you feel a little sexually deprived. You're lucky in that the quality hasn't diminished at all, even if the frequency has, which it always does in the context of a long, long-ass term relationship. So I would go in to the conversation with your girlfriend next, not about, I want to have crazy

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_04] off the wall, full-blown sex more often, but in addition, honey, to the really crazy, amazing, full-blown sex that we have still frequently, if not as frequently as I might like to have it. In addition to that, I want to familiarize you with this concept of assisted masturbation. And every once in a while when I'm horny and I initiate, rather than just saying no, or you're not in the mood, how about you just hold me while I use a vibrator on myself. And we have a

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_04] little bit of dirty talk, a little intimacy, a little connection that doesn't require too much

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_05] from you. Yeah, that'll work. Ask me how I know. Hi, Dan. I have a question about my penis. And I have a long-time partner. We have PIV sex regularly. And my penis smells like her, and it's not a bad way at all. And it's not really an issue except for that, you know, we're

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_05] probably a couple. And while it's an issue right now, I don't have another partner, but someday I will. And I wonder if that would be an issue, you know, say during a lot of sex or something like that. So what is my question? It's that, you know, despite having great hygiene and washing regularly, that smell remains. And I know that it's probably a mixture of our mucus and bacteria

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_05] mixing and et cetera, you know, having done some research. So the question would be, you know, is there a way or some kind of special soap to make that go away? If not, or even better, maybe like how would I bring this up to another partner, say they want to like perform oral on me and I have this, you know, aroma. How would I talk about it?

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_04] Hmm. Here's how you talk about it. You don't talk about it. There is literally nothing here to discuss. If you find yourself a new partner, first time she goes down on you, she's not going to think, Hey, this smells like his girl. How would she know what your girlfriend, if your dick smells like your girlfriend, how would she know what your girlfriend smells like? What would her frame of

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_04] reference be? How could she make the comp here as the real estate agents might say? And dude, can you really smell your girlfriend on your dick? I have a dick. The only time I can smell my own dick is when, yeah, maybe I had sex with my partner and then we fell asleep and we went for a 10 mile hike in the morning and we got home and then I was too exhausted to even get in the shower and fell

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_04] asleep. And then the next day I go to take a piss in the morning, I can smell my dick and it is not a good smell. You can really usually only smell your own dick when your dick smells terrible. Not when your dick smells like your partner. Yeah, there's probably soaps out there that you can use literally any soap. Possible, of course, that your crotch microbiome and your girlfriend's crotch microbiome

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_04] have created a kind of yummy, positive feedback loop. But yeah, that's just how your dick smells now. And you don't have to power wash your, I just rented a power washer and power washed our deck and front porch, very suburban dad of me. You couldn't do that to your dick. There's no way to scrub your dick free of all scent. And if your scent now is some combo platter of your

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_04] girlfriend's crotch microbiome and your crotch microbiome, then that's just how your dick smells. And hopefully your next partner, your other partners will appreciate how your dick smells and enjoy the taste, the flavor, the aroma of your dick. And so long as you're clean, so long as you're practicing good personal hygiene, which I neglected to do after that sex and then 10 mile hike and then

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_04] go to bed instead of jumping into the shower, as long as you're practicing good personal hygiene, this is a non-issue. I'm surprised you can smell your dick considering how far up your ass you are right now. There are worse things that you could be smelling right now considering. Dude, you can't smell your own dick. And somebody who gets their face down there and can smell your own dick

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_04] isn't going to detect whiffs of oak and boysenberry and girlfriend. They're just going to think that's how your dick smells. And yeah, file this under non-problems. This is not a problem. Do not obsess about this. Use soap, use it regularly. Go get your dick sucked. So many of my listeners ask how to revive excitement in their relationships. You're a listener. You know, you've heard that question again and again.

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[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_08] Hi, Dan. I work in a building in a small town that was recently built above it, our apartments. When the building was first being inhabited, I guess a lot of stuff got moved around and as people were moving in upstairs, the offices were also moving in downstairs. Eventually, a piece of art wound up

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_08] in the office space that shows an explicit scene between two men. One of them, they're both kneeling, one is right pushed up against the other one's back with his arms around him and his head kind of pressed into between his shoulder blades. And the man in the front is kind of looking back and is holding his cock, which is just ejaculated. So it's quite a moment. It's really beautiful and tender,

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_08] and no one knew who it belonged to, so I just said I could take it. So it's been hanging on my wall for a while, and it's one of my favorite pictures because it feels like it's both hot and extremely loving. I found out that it may be a commissioned piece of an actual couple who lives in the apartment above. I no longer work in that office building, but I thought maybe I'd seen the couple and then another friend confirmed that she had also seen this couple. What do I do? I don't know them.

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_08] I don't know how to contact them. And I've now had it for over a year and a bit. What would you do in

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_04] this scenario? Should I try to give it back? So you absconded from your previous place of employment with this artwork that you now know or now suspect belongs to the upstairs neighbors. As everyone was moving into this condo office conversion, boxes got mixed up. You found this piece of art. Obviously,

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_04] homoerotic art, explicit homoerotic art is not the sort of thing people hang on the walls of a workplace. So it was never intended for the workplace where you formerly worked. Obviously, it belonged to someone else in the building, but you didn't know it at the time. You liked the piece, and when you left the job, you left with the piece. But now your conscience is eating away at you, and you suspect you are in

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_04] possession not just of a piece of art that belongs to somebody else, but something that this couple commissioned. Portrait of the two of them together. What do you do? Seems obvious to me that if you know where it is that you used to work, and you know where this couple lives, you know the address of your former workplace, and it wouldn't be that hard to send a note, to send a message, to send a

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_04] registered letter to these guys saying, hey, through this crazy mix-up during the move-in, a box that I think might belong to you with a piece of art in it that I think might belong to you wound up in my office. And I didn't know whose it was, but I thought you could make some bullshit up about how you thought that if you left it there, it might be discarded, because it clearly wasn't office

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_04] material. It wasn't office art worthy, or office art appropriate. And it's been in my garage, my attic, my crawl space, my dining room ever since. And I had a hunch it might be yours, and I wanted to, before I figure out what to do with it, reach out to you guys. And then if it's theirs, they'll be so happy to hear from you. They probably wondered where the fuck this thing went, and who the fuck

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_04] has it. Seems obvious, seems simple, seems easy. You know how to get this piece back to these guys. I think you're just worried that by reaching out to them about this piece currently being in your possession, it's going to look like you swiped it. And maybe you did. Maybe you did. But now you have thought better of that, and you want to get it back to them, and you are allowed to create

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_04] for yourself a little face-saving white lie that allows you to reach out to them, excuses your actions, or contextualizes your actions and coming into possession of this art in the first place, while engaging in an act of restorative justice. Send them a letter, get them the painting back. This episode is brought to you by Load Boost by VB Health. For many of you, shooting a big load is a

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[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_09] Hi, I'm Pansexual from the Pacific Northwest. So I went to a sex party for the first time, and I thoroughly enjoyed myself, but didn't really join in at all because I felt a little bit uncomfortable because I was by myself. The parties are very inclusive. They feel very safe, and I do know a few folks tangentially at the parties. I am planning to go to another one

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_09] and a few months, and I am just wondering what I can do to get out of my comfort zone and like how one approaches at a sex party politely and interestedly. I don't know. I feel like I am old enough to know how to do these things and have had enough experience to know how to do these things, but I feel self-conscious at the party. I do have a partner, but they are not interested

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_09] in going. We've discussed it. They are comfortable with me going, but have no desire to join me. And I don't really have a friend that I'd feel really comfortable going to that sort of intimate

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_04] place with. Keep going. You're already going to go. You say you're going to go again. That would be my advice. Keep going to these safe, inclusive, fun sex parties. You say there are some people there that you kind of, sort of know. My advice would be to throw yourself, not on the mercy of those people, but to bring them into how you're feeling, to initiate a conversation, not to hit on necessarily

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_04] one of them. It might be better even to have this conversation with someone you're not interested in playing with or who you know isn't interested in playing with you and just say, hey, I feel like a little bit of a wallflower at this party. This is still new to me. I'm a little nervous. I could just really use some immoral support here. And that can mean just I need somebody to talk to, to chat with, to hang out with, to have a drink with so that I don't look

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_04] so much like a newbie and a wallflower, even though you are, of course, a little bit of a newbie. There is something about people in bars and clubs, at parties and sex spaces, where when they're on their own, it's hard to gauge how much interaction they're welcoming or seeking. Also, when someone

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_04] is with a group of people, interacting with a group of people, you can get a read on their demeanor, their friendliness, how open they are to interacting with other people because you're watching them interact with other people, which is why it's always better if you're going out, you're interested in picking somebody up or getting picked up, that you go with a posse, go with a group. And what you need to assemble for yourself, I think, at this party to make yourself feel more comfortable, also a

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_04] little bit more approachable, and to build your confidence around approaching others is you just need to assemble that little group, your little posse. And you have the component parts already there at the party. At the party, there are people that you know at the party. You don't know them well. You need to be the five-year-old. Not that there should be a five-year-old at a sex party, but you need to tap into that ability that we all have when we're about five years old of walking up

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_04] to somebody and saying, hey, you want to be friends? Little kids can do it. We lose that when we grow the fuck up. You need to tap back into that. You need to dig deep, locate your inner child, and walk up to somebody and say, hey, look, I'm alone here, and will you be my friend? Will you have a drink with me? I just need to hang with somebody for a couple of minutes. Add, I promise not to be a barnacle. I'm not going to attach myself to you for the entire night. You're not responsible for

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_04] me or my enjoyment of the party. Just need to hang with somebody for a minute for my nerves. And that person, I promise you, at some point they were at their first sex party and they were nervous. And if they didn't ask someone to be the person you're asking them to be for you, they wished they'd had the courage to ask someone to be that person. And they will probably be only too happy to be that

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_04] person for you. Especially if you give them the assurance, you're not going to be a barnacle. You're not going to attach yourself to them for the entire night. And then you'll chat with them. Other friends of theirs will come up. You'll chat with them too. You'll cleave off with other people and you'll feel more comfortable then. And you'll appear to be more approachable then because you're demonstrating the kind of social skills, the kind of connection that people want to see in people

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_04] who are thinking about fucking. Yeah, the person alone in the bar, standing in a corner, not as approachable as the person who's hanging out with a few people. It's almost like those people you're hanging out with, even if they don't know you well, are in a sense, the symbolic way, vouching for you, communicating to other people that you are someone that they might want to interact with too.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_04] Have fun, go back, keep going back, use your words, find your inner five-year-old, walk up to somebody who seems approachable, who seems friendly and say, Hey, do you want to be my friend? And I'll buy you a drink. Of course, buying a drink, not something your five-year-old can do, but definitely something that you, a grown-ass adult woman at a sex party can do. This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep, maker of my husband's mattress, my mattress,

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[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_10] slash savage. Hi, Dan. I'm a 38-year-old gay man. I'm married and have been with my husband for 12 years, 10 of which were monogamous. I learned a week ago that my husband cheated on me with a mutual friend. I'll call him Joe. My husband kept it a secret for two weeks and he was probably going to

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_10] keep it to the grave until I gained suspicion from a reliable friend. It turns out that Joe told that friend. I questioned my husband about what my friend told me and only then did he tell me that he had cheated on me. I was devastated and I've been heartbroken for days. Right now I am numb to this

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_10] and I'm holding it in for this recording. I've been cheated on in a past relationship and I became bitter and mean to that ex. They of course cheated on me again and we split up. So based on my history, how can I live with the anger? How do I stop from being resentful every waking hour

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_10] to my husband? He's shown remorse and he does deserve my hate because he fucked everything up. I'm no longer friends with Joe, of course, and no longer, well, I've strained relationships with other friends in our social circle who found out as well. So yes, my husband deserves the hate, but I know we

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_10] have to get through this too somehow. I worry that I won't break through my anxiety and that he'll grow

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_04] tired of that and then cheat on me again. I would advise you to read Mating in Captivity, read State of Affairs, both books by Esther Perel, a psychotherapist, author who's done a lot of work with couples, particularly couples where one cheated and they're interested in repairing the relationship. Are you interested in repairing

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_04] this relationship? You need to decide what you want? Do you want to be with somebody who's never cheated on you? Okay. That means ending this relationship and finding someone new. If you want to be with your husband, that will require you to let go of your anger. It will require you if the relationship survival

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_04] is more important to you than meeting out revenge or apportioning hatred or cutting off mutual friends who knew will require you to dig deep and forgive him. And what are we forgiving him for? We're forgiving him for something that routinely happens in a lot of long-term relationships. Cheating, infidelity. Please, please, please. I know I just recommended it. I recommend it again.

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_04] Please read State of Affairs. It goes into the motivations of a lot of people who've had affairs. And what the culture tells us about why people have affairs is very, very different than the reasons a lot of people cite for the affairs that they actually had. The culture tells us that if somebody cheated on you, they don't love you, they don't respect you, they don't value the relationship.

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_04] Often, the motives when someone cheats are none of those things. People do cheat on people that they love. They shouldn't. It's wrong. They will have to make amends and make apologies and make it up to the person they cheated on if they get caught. But it's not a sign of a lack of love or desire to

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_04] remain together. Not always. Of course, sometimes somebody cheats because they're slamming their hand down on the self-destruct button or the eject button. This is not to excuse serial adulterers who seem to get into relationships because they want a victim. And sometimes people cheat because they want out and they don't have the courage or decency to end things themselves. So they orchestrate a circumstance where the other person feels they have no other choice but to end the relationship.

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_04] Doesn't sound like that's the case here. It sounds like there was a moment, a human moment, and your husband did something that he regrets. In a context where you guys are open already, to some extent. You say that you've been together for 12 years. 10 of those years were monogamous. He cheated. I thought maybe the cheating happened two years ago when you were dating your

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_04] now non-monogamous relationship from the cheating incident. But the cheating happened two weeks ago. So by inference, you guys were closed for 10, open for two. And now he's had sex with somebody else, which he is allowed to do if you're open in some way. I assume there are rules and conditions. And he violated those rules and conditions when he had sex with this guy, this guy you're calling Joe.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_04] Doesn't make it not wrong. He broke the rules. But I don't know. Like, I don't want to minimize the wrong here or invalidate your feelings of hurt in any way. But it sounds like your husband did a thing your husband is allowed to do, just didn't dot the I's and cross the T's

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_04] in doing it. Maybe you're one of those open couples with a can't be in the same time zone rule. Maybe you're one of those DADT couples or open couples where it can't be anybody that you both know in common. Can't be anybody from your social circle. Always has to be a non with a stranger who poses no risk to the relationship emotionally. And those are the rules that he broke. Okay. Can you forgive him?

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_04] Can you allow for the fact that this person that you love, who loves you is human and failable and failed and fucked up and give him the opportunity, give him the chance to make this up to you. And maybe during the conversations that you guys are going to have about salvaging your relationship, saving your relationship, you can revisit those rules and whether they are workable or not.

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_04] And if they're not, maybe there's a revision required. Maybe there's a universe, an alt timeline in which the sex that your husband had with Joe didn't break the rules because the rules were different and therefore you might feel less violated. If you can ratcon those rules. But yeah, dude, if you can't forgive him, if you're going to be angry every day, every day when you wake up

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_04] and you're going to take it out on him and you're going to use this as a stick to beat up on him for the rest of his life. If you expect him to be on the back foot for the rest of the time that you two are together, cut to the chase and get the divorce and end the relationship and go find somebody else who hasn't cheated on you. Yet. Right? Last serious relationship, you got cheated on. This serious relationship, you got cheated on.

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_04] Men are pigs. They really are. We really are. There's a high likelihood that you may get into a new relationship with somebody else that you like less or love less than you like and love the man you're with now. And there's no guarantee that in that relationship, life is long. Shit happens. People make mistakes. That that person to be named later, the person who hasn't cheated on you yet might cheat on you. It's always a possibility.

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_04] At least in this relationship, if you stay, the worst has already happened. And if the relationship can survive and recover and thrive again, it's a good sign. You might wind up in a better place with your current husband. Once you get through this crisis, then you would find yourself in with a future partner. More secure. Safer. With the man you're with now. Once you process this.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_04] Read those books. Find a couples counselor. Hash this out. But if you can't picture yourself forgiving him, don't drag it out.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_07] Hi, Dan. I wanted to put out a warning to all of us in the kink community. I've been practicing in the kink community for quite a few years with my wife. Recently, we're getting a divorce and I have found myself in legal trouble. I was a cuck.

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_07] And part of our activities involved sharing photos, things of that nature. Well, she was a lot better at documenting than me. And she has turned something around. And I am now facing legal trouble distributing unlawful images without consent.

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_07] Even though consent was implied. It's a very expensive and very difficult thing to go through. So I just want everybody to be aware and be careful out there.

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_04] Trust your mother. Cut the cards. Trust your hot wife that she's okay with you sharing pics with other men if that's part of your dynamic. In a cuck hot wife arrangement. But get a confirmation email or two. Have that conversation via text. Get it in writing, maybe. I say that with some trepidation because you say consent, your wife's consent to you sharing photos of her with other men.

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_04] Which is often something that cucks enjoy. They enjoy that their wives are desired by other men. Sometimes it is the cuck's job to get out there in the world and find other men that his wife might be interested in. And laying those options in front of his wife and letting her pick. Usually the consent to that is explicit. You say, and maybe you misspoke. You say her consent was implied. Yeah.

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_04] If you're going to share naked photos of someone, even if that someone is your wife, even if your wife sometimes has sex with other men, with your permission and to your delight, that consent needs to be explicit, verbalized. And in a case where two people wind up in court, it would be ideal if that consent was notarized.

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_04] So you had some proof that when you were sending these photos around, that your wife was okay with it. Not just okay with it, hopefully, fingers crossed, but excited about it. Some people do like to have their pictures shared. Some people like to know that there are other people out there who've seen them naked and who are jacking off to their images.

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_04] But if that wasn't your wife, if your wife didn't explicitly consent to that, yeah, you could get into exactly this kind of legal trouble if your relationship goes tits up. So it is a good warning to people involved in the kink community or kink scenes. Good warning to get it in writing.

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_04] I remember a case from, God, 20, 25 years ago where a guy was arrested because he did everything that the person who he had sex with, a kinky scene with, had asked him to do. And only got off because it was all in email. And yeah, it was ugly. And a lot of people fell on either side of that dispute, depending on their POV and own personal experiences and assumptions.

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_04] But he got it in email. And that was from a stranger. I think that's important. If you're doing varsity level kink with people that you've just met whose mental health, mental state, you may not be entirely familiar with. And to get it in writing, not that getting it in writing means a person can't withdraw their consent at any moment.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_04] Of course they can, but at least you have some framework of understanding and some proof that if shit goes south or that person's partner finds out that they did this thing and then they claim that they were victimized by you have proof that you were just helping them fulfill a fantasy. That is something that best practices you might want to do when negotiating a kink scene with a new partner. It would be a text. Don't do it over the phone.

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_04] Doing it with a spouse, of course, is probably going to be mostly verbal. But your case is evidence that at some point, just in case, worst case scenario plays out and a divorce happens, that your spouse can't weaponize what was consensual sexual play and flirting with other people and using their pics in this manner.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_04] Because you have it at least in a text exchange with your spouse about the fact that you're doing this and that they are okay with it. You can only get that kind of confirmation, of course, if consent is not implied but explicit. If you assumed your wife was okay with you sharing pics because your wife sometimes had sex with other men with your permission, that was a big leap that you shouldn't have made and you may be paying a price for now.

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_04] Sorry you're in this position. Good object lesson for other people out there. And best practices, consent is never implied. Consent is always explicit. And sometimes, for your own sake, you probably do want to get it in writing or get it in texting. All right, time for the listener feedback segments of the show. First up, a few of the written comments listeners left about last week's show at savage.love.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_04] Says bi Danfan to the bi woman who's mostly dated men, you are not a fake bisexual. You are a typical bisexual. And I was flipping you the bird, Dan, when you trotted out bisexual but heteroamorous again. Love you. But how about switching it up occasionally and trotting out bisexual, bi-amorous, but living in a heteronormative world every so often?

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_04] The last thing we bisexual women need is for someone like you, Dan, to further decimate our chances of finding partners who are women by telling lesbians that those of us who mostly dated men can't fall in love with women. Says Sprecher Wolf for the High Libido HRT woman. The phrasing of your question made it sound like you are afflicted by your high libido as opposed to enjoying the ride. But if it feels like an affliction, perhaps you could speak to your health provider about easing off the tea a little bit.

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_04] Hormone replacement therapy is by no means a set it and forget it treatment regimen. And it requires a medical provider who knows what he or she is doing. Says RVA Pilot. For the woman looking for a male sex worker, do a search on tryst for your area and interests. The more professional ones will have websites, be active on social media, etc. Surprised Dan never mentioned them in the past. And Rick's had a movie record for that caller. There's a sweet indie film starring Emma Thompson called Good Luck to You, Leo Grande.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_04] About a mature woman who hires a male sex worker. It's a charming, sensitive character drama worth watching. I agree with Rick's. Good luck to you, Leo Grande. Or Grande is a great movie recommended to everyone. Not just women looking for male sex workers. Sprecher Wolf makes a great point about HRT therapy. And by Dan Phan, you are right. I will try to mix bisexual and bi-amorous, and not just bisexual and hetero-amorous, into the mix. You got something to say about something I said on this week's show?

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_04] Jump into the comment thread at savage.love and say it there. Or give us a call at 206-302-2064. Or email us a voice memo at q at savage.love. And you might get to say it here on the show. And now, savage love listeners who left those messages on our answering machines about last week's show, get to have, as they always do, the last word on this week's show.

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_01] Hi, Dan. I'm calling a response to episode 1025 about the caller who was confused about men not wanting to wear condoms or having to have her partners remember to use condoms. No, absolutely not. Are you fucking kidding me? These are grown-ass men, and they cannot remember a conversation about the contraceptive method you require having sex, and then they forget about it. Then you just don't have sex with them. Get them off your fucking roster. They don't respect you.

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_01] They're not going to be there to help you source an abortion pill if they can't source a fucking condom before having sex with you. So just absolutely fucking not. If you tell somebody you require something for feeling safe and having pleasurable sex and they don't do it, just find somebody else to fuck. There are plenty of other guys who will be respectful. These guys sound stupid and cruel. Find other people to fuck.

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_06] This is a comment for the caller with the hot boyfriend who has a cross-dressing upstairs neighbor who repeatedly overflows his bathtub. This isn't sex and relationship advice, but it's important. If this bathtub overflowing thing has happened 20 times or more, as you described, your boyfriend's problems are probably bigger than a pervy neighbor. The damage here is probably a lot more than his ceiling. Repeated cycles of saturating and drying out construction materials weakens them

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_06] and creates an environment where mold can develop. So make sure the insurance inspectors have looked at everything closely with the knowledge in mind that this flooding thing has been a frequent occurrence. In many cases like this, the subfloor of the upstairs apartment would also be replaced to fix the damage properly. So caller, I suspect your boyfriend's going to gain some further leverage to force a stop to this behavior

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_06] because pervy upstairs neighbor is probably going to have to explain to his unsuspecting wife why their bathroom floor needs to be ripped up.

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_02] This is a response call for the girl that might think she's a fraud and she's not pan or bi enough. I feel you. I'm a man in my 40s. It has taken me a long time to come out of the closet. Always felt I was different from my cishet friends, you know. But yeah, I thought I wasn't queer enough or I wasn't gay or whatnot. It made me cry to hear you.

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_02] But here it is. You're part of the family. Feel free to go to all the prides with all the pride in your heart.

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_04] And we are going to leave it there. Got a question about anything? Got a comment about something I said? Go to savage.love slash ask Dan to record and upload your question or your comment directly onto our website. Or you can email us a voicememo at q at savage.love. Or you can call us at 206-302-2064 and leave us a message on our answering machine. And if you tried something new and you want to share the dirty details with me, email us at q at savage.love. And you might be our next guest on After Action Report.

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_04] The all-new Hump Fall season is coming. And right now is your chance to score the lowest-priced tickets of the season. Visit humpfilmfest.com to get tickets to an in-theater screening of the all-new Fall Hump Program. Or to stream other seasons of Hump online. Follow me at bluesky at dan savage. Follow me on Instagram at dan savage. Follow Daniel McLaughlin on bluesky and other social media platforms at visiblerestraint.

[00:55:18] [SPEAKER_04] The Savage Lovecast is produced every week by Nancy Hartunian. And me and Nancy and the tech savvy at risk youth. We will all be back at you next week for an installment of the Savage Lovecast. Thank you for telling me.

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_04] This episode of the Savage Lovecast is brought to you by Load Boost by VB Health. Load Boost is a supplement designed to improve the taste, the volume, and the overall health of your semen. If you're already putting in the work, why not make your performance unforgettable? Made in the USA, NSF certified, and produced in an FDA-registered facility. Thousands of guys across 50 states and 45 countries swear by Load Boost.

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