After Action Report #46

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00] The Strangers Genius Awards are back, celebrating Seattle's art and culture community with an awards show and cash prizes. Hosted by Miss Texas 1988 and Lady Gugu, Shabazz Palace's headlines with DJ sets by Eric Blood and La Mala Noche, Saturday, September 12th at the Moore Theatre, tickets start at $10 and are on sale now at strangergeniusawards.com.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_00] You're listening to After Action Report at Savage.net.

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_01] After Action Report. Welcome to After Action Report, where you, my listeners, tell me, your host, Dan Savage, about something new that you've tried. This week, meet Tom, who ventured into deepest, darkest Germany to experience something most tourists wouldn't dare try. Tom, welcome to the show. Hi, nice to be here. So, before we get to what you did, who are you? Tell us a little bit about Tom.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_02] I'm a mid-20s guy, a mechanical engineer in the Midwest, and I've been in this long-term relationship. Just opened up the relationship maybe like three years ago.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_01] So, what is it that you tried? What's the new thing that you did with your partner?

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_02] We went together to a Berlin sex club.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_01] I recommend Berlin sex clubs. Which one and which night?

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, for sure. I feel like people who go will recognize the name. We went to the Kit Kat Club on Wednesday.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_01] Kit Kat Club. That's a big one. You haven't given us the sex or gender of your partner. And just hearing that it was Kit Kat Club you went to, I'm going to guess, assigned female at birth partner that you were with a woman? That's right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Kit Kat Club is amazing, and it's a big sex club. It's a huge kink space. It's welcoming people of all sexual orientations, all genders. First of all, how did you find out about Kit Kat? And how did you find it when you went?

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, for sure. So, I was in Berlin for a work trip. So, it was kind of vaguely on my list of things like, oh, there's like really cool sex clubs in Berlin. Maybe we should check them out. So, honestly, did zero preparation beforehand. We got there and started doing some research on like, hey, what are the clubs? What's the scene? What's cool? And then realized that a lot of these places have pretty intense dress codes. Yes, they do.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_02] So, you know, flying from the States, I did not pack any kink or fetish gear. But luckily in Berlin, there is a whole industry around the dress code for these clubs.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_01] So, you guys went on a little shopping spree, a little pretty woman thing?

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, totally. I was working during the week. But she, you know, went store to store looking for all the fetish gear. And it was a surprise for me the day of what I was going to be wearing. So, that was a good time.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_01] So, what did your partner pick out for you to wear? And it worked. It got you in.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. And I would say that like Kit Kat Club is a really cool club. I feel like it's less focused on being exclusionary and a lot more on creating a safe environment where people are going to be cool and into the scene.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_01] Which does require some exclusion to create a space where people feel safe and comfortable. That's not just about who you let in. That's sometimes about who you keep out.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_02] Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01] So, you wore a collar. What else?

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_02] Oh, yeah. I had a collar, you know, sort of a mesh see-through shirt. And I had like this leather underwear that unbuttoned in the front. You know, I had some, you know, some slits where you could see a little bit more than I would be used to. But, you know, it was all new to me. Yeah, I feel like she picked out a great outfit for herself as well. She had like, you know, this great like chain. It was like a choker that had chains hanging from it and pasties and all of that.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_02] So, yeah, it was a great time getting dressed up for it.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_01] Did you enjoy the line? Like sometimes people who don't get into Bergen or Kit Kat will say that they had so much fun in the line that not getting in wasn't too heartbreaking. So did you have fun in the line? Did you see people getting turned away? Were you nervous when you got up to the front?

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_02] Oh, definitely kind of nervous about getting turned away. We had gone to Berghain earlier in the week trying to get in and got turned away because honestly, we were not the right vibe for getting into Berghain that night.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_01] Oh, my God. How long did you wait in line at Bergen to then not get in?

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_02] Oh, it was honestly, we got there pretty late. So we were waiting like maybe five minutes. It was.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_01] Oh, OK, good, good. I've heard of people waited in line four or five hours and didn't get in my mind. But go ahead. Go ahead.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_02] So, you know, I got some tips online that the trick is to wear street clothes. And then have a bag where you change into your gear as you get into the club. Got a really nice like walkthrough of like the consent culture and, you know, the safety staff that are present as we got in. Yeah, I got changed through air phones. Oh, a fun part is I read this tip online that you have to have a waist bag because, you know, you're not going to be carrying around a bag with you all night. So, you know, lube and condom in the waist bag.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_02] So we went shopping around Berlin for a waist bag all day and eventually got one.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_01] We call those fanny packs. So it doesn't sound like you have a colostomy bag. Yeah, fanny pack. Yeah.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_01] That you wear on your waist, but it's not full of waste. It's full of important things. I just wanted to share a friend's story about being in line at KitKat. And they got to the front and they went through the consent lecture. And the person my friend was with rolled her eyes because she thought, I know all this. And then they didn't get in because they didn't look like they were taking the consent conversation seriously. And they were told to come back another night. And, you know, I think that was heartbreaking for my friend and his buddy.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_01] But, like, I kind of loved that. Like, it's like paying attention during the air safety demo on the airplane. Like, come on. Lock it.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_02] No, 100%. And I feel like to have a space like this, you have to have everybody be willing to create that safe environment. And that's the most important thing by far.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_01] Especially if you want women to come and stay. Which, the higher bar to clear. An all-male environment, like, yeah, people aren't going to be as aggressive about policing aggression. But in a space that includes women, femme people, it's a higher bar. And, like, I think a lot of those consent conversations are for the dudes. Okay, so you've never been to a Berlin Sex Club before. You got the gear. You got in line. You got in. Give us that moment. You go through the airlock.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_01] And, like, you're in KitKat. What's your first impression?

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_02] I feel like I was just like, wow, everyone here is so free. You know, you start, like, looking around at how people are dressed. And it's like, wow, it is so normal that everyone's in fetish gear. And, you know, you just look around and there's people making out everywhere. And, you know, it takes a second to get your bearings. We were there on a Wednesday, so I think only part of the club was open. But I've heard that if you go on a weekend, it's huge.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_02] And, yeah, it's just kind of overwhelming. You're just, like, excited to explore and see all of what's going on.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01] So what new things did you explore?

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_02] I guess just in terms of how the night progressed. We went to the dance floor and were dancing to some techno music. So that was new to me. I don't know how to dance to techno music, but I figured it out through the night. We met some really cool people to start with. And my partner kind of went off and was talking to one of the guys from that group. I'd say I'm a recovering shy person.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_02] So even just, like, being in the club on my own, trying to meet people is, you know, quite a task. And I made some cool connections just with people waiting in line for drinks, dancing with different people. That was a great time. And as I was doing this, I was just walking around the club. And out of the corner of my eye, I, you know, there's, like, you know, different beds with different sexual activities going on. And I see my partner getting, you know, railed from behind.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_02] And I was like, wow, that's the first time I've seen that.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01] Did you guys talk about that in advance? Did you go in saying, like, we're both allowed to hook up with other people while we're here? Or were you surprised by that?

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_02] We had the conversation beforehand of, you know. Good. I'm really relieved to hear that. Yeah, yeah, totally. We were, you know, expecting to meet people and talk and everything like that. It was just the first time that I had actually seen her be with someone. Like, it's always been like, oh, you know, they're going off on a date and I see them afterwards. So, yeah, that was a little bit surprising.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_01] But was it a good feeling? Was it a bad feeling? Was it arousing? Were you too far outside your comfort zone? Was it challenging? Like, that's a big thing for somebody, even in an open relationship, if you haven't had three ways or whatever, to, like, see your partner. To know your partner's having sex with somebody else is different than seeing your partner have sex with somebody else. I'm curious what that was for you at that moment.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_02] Good? Bad? I think that one of the things that kind of builds strength in an open relationship is you give your partner space to try something new that's a little outside of your comfort zone. And then you do get these kind of feelings of, like, oh, hey, maybe that was, or, like, how do I feel about that, right? Like, you get some feelings of, like, oh, maybe a little bit of insecurity on my part. Like, oh, like, what's going to happen to the relationship?

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_02] But the best part is, you know, after she's done, she comes and finds me in the club. And we just have a sit down on the side and lay and hold each other and have a conversation and reconnect, right? And, you know, I was definitely feeling, like, a little bit insecure. But, like, I felt all the love and connection. And, like, after that, I'm feeling, like, great.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_01] Oh, my God. Big feelings. Playing with big feelings. Sometimes people are afraid of stirring up those big emotions. But if you can ride that a little, like, surfing, it can be so rewarding. So your partner had sex with somebody else. You had going in and kind of understanding that that was a possibility. You see it. And then your partner comes and finds you. That moment, for some people, is just emotional. For some people, that moment can be emotional and really sexual. There'll be reclaiming sex in that moment.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_01] When you guys came back together, did you fuck?

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, totally. So she, you know, started initiating things, being like, wow, you look so good. It's so nice in this club right now. She pulls me over to the side. And, yeah, we do fuck. And that's also my first time having sex in the middle of a busy sex club. So that was a fun experience, too.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_01] Anything that happened that left a bad taste in your mouth? Anything that, if you went back, you would want to do a little differently? Because there's a learning curve. Like, you learn, you know, partnered sex and vanilla sex, like, that you have in your apartment, in your dorm room. You learn things about yourself. That's a process. Same thing with, like, varsity level public sex, kinky sex, swinging. Like, it's not like you might step on a mind that you didn't anticipate.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_01] And then not, like, be so devastated you can never go back. But, like, learn how to move through these spaces. Learn how sex in these places works best for you. Were there any learning moments for you?

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, totally. Actually, I'm thinking about just as in the time that I was on my own and just trying to meet people on the dance floor and all of that. I made several connections and kind of during that time I was a little afraid to, like, get close and be vulnerable with people. I'm worried about taking things too far in a way that people aren't going to appreciate. But I'm kind of, like, learning the process of, like, how to initiate the physical touch, cross the physical touch barrier,

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_02] and how to dance with someone and kind of keep the rhythm flowing and all of that. So I feel like that was an unexpected lesson.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01] And accurately read at those moments their physical cues and control for dickful thinking. Like, if you do an interesting touch, like, part of you is invested in wanting the touch to work for that person, and you're attracted to that person. And there needs to be, like, a third eye you have on yourself where, like, are you getting the signals back that you hoped to get? Or are you getting deflected? I think that's a real issue when it comes to assigned male at birth persons having sex with people who were assigned female at birth, or men having sex with women.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_01] Is women are sometimes shy about shutting something down, and they will, instead of saying no or pull away, they'll attempt to gently deflect. And a guy, a man in an environment like the Kit Kat, really needs to lean into over-interpreting deflection. Absolutely. And really have an eye out for it.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, totally. And in an environment like that, it's, like, so loud. You can't have a conversation. So the nonverbal cues and, like, really being attuned into those is very important. Would you go back? Yeah, totally. I feel like there was really cool people. Honestly, my favorite part was just, like, you know, after hooking up, we went over to the pool and just were just chatting with people and just, like, hearing about their lives. And I feel like there's just such a cool community, really interesting people.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_02] My partner is Korean, and I think that's a bit of a rare sight in Berlin. And we met this guy who's just like, yeah, I've got a fetish for Korean girls. You know, I'm proud about it. And, you know, there's just, like, not an environment where I've been before where people are just, like, so open about it.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_01] How did your partner feel about that?

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_02] I think it was mixed feelings. So, actually, he was part of the initial group that met on the dance floor. And he was kind of found my partner when she was hooking up with this other guy and was kind of standing watching. And she was pretty neutral to it. You know, in general, you're in a situation where you're having public sex. So it's sort of expected that people are going to be watching.

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_01] Yes.

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_02] I think that he was pretty respecting of the fact that she was not as into him as he was into her. But it was just an interesting thing to hear. And in that environment where consent is pretty respected, I think it was a lot better to have that conversation.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_01] It's a fine line to walk to say to somebody, I have a fetish for your type without making that person feel fetishized. To recognize, like, the object that person is as they move through the world, the physical mass and reality of that person. While still respecting their personhood. And a lot of people, that needle can't be threaded. Maybe this dude managed to thread that needle with your girlfriend. Since your girlfriend wasn't too put off by him or offended. Yeah.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, yeah. I think so. Okay. So advice for people who might want to do the same besides pack your own fetish gear?

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_02] Go in with minimal expectations. Just be open to going and dancing to some music and having fun. And just have, like, honest conversations with the people in front of you and see what happens.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_01] I'm really happy for you. I'm pleased it went so well. Yeah, absolutely. That's a big one. Like, German sex club. That's major.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, no, for sure. I'm, you know, trying to figure out if I can open a local sex club in my small Midwest town. I feel like it might be a little bit less likely.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_01] It gives you a reason to travel internationally.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_02] Of course. Yeah, totally.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_01] Tom, thank you so much for coming on After Action Report. Thanks for having me. Thanks again, Tom. Sounds like you and your girlfriend have a great relationship. Warms my perverted heart to hear about those relationships. If you have a story of something new you tried or someone new you tried, whether it was fun or a total bummer, let me know. Write to me about it at Q at savage.love and you can be my next guest on After Action Report. After Action Report.