After Action Report #51

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01] Today's episode is brought to you by Love Unlimited, a sexual wellness retailer that carries brands like Lilo and B-Vibe, and nothing on the package that arrives at your house says what's inside. For a limited time, all toys are buy one, get one, 50% off. Go to loveunlimited.com slash savage or use code savage at checkout.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_01] This episode is brought to you by VB Health, doctor-formulated supplements that work. To learn more about Load Boost, the performance-enhancing supplement, and to get 10% off, visit loadboost.com and use the code savage. You're listening to After Action Report at savage.love. After Action Report!

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_01] Welcome to After Action Report, where you learn to eye your friends and neighbors with a whole new level of suspicion. This week we meet Scott, a big bearded man who, with the help of his very Gigi wife, managed to unleash his girly side. Scott, welcome to the show. Thank you. So, before we get to what you did, what you wanted to share with everybody, the new experience, the adventure, tell us a little bit about yourself.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_00] I'm a 50-year-old cis white presenting male. I live in a blue city in a red state. I just got married recently. And, yeah.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_01] And you must have a moisturizing routine because you, for having just turned 50, I would have guessed 38, 37. I get that all the time.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_00] It's a lot of not working hard. And, yes, I have a skincare routine.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_01] And unclean living or clean living.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_00] My person's a partner of color, so I learned about lotion.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_01] Ah, there you go. Yeah. So, what is it that you did? What is it you wanted to share on After Action Report?

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_00] Well, so, I am 6'4", 250 pounds. My dating history in the past has always been women tend to, my partners tend to be on the submissive side. And with my new partner, we're both switches. And so, we, after having some conversations and we like to communicate really well, we ended up exploring cross-dressing in the bedroom.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_01] Oh.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_01] Was that a long-term interest of yours? Is that a new interest of yours? Was it something that your partner was interested in experimenting with?

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_00] Well, it's funny. She pegs me. Like, that's a pretty normal thing for us. And it has been from pretty early on in the relationship. And obviously, when that's happening, we tend to be very kind of switchy, where she takes a more dominant role. And we were talking about it one night because obviously, you know, I'm a parent. I'm a big guy. I am almost always put in a authoritarian, dominant, top role. And we were talking about it. And I said, you know, I think I'd like to explore, like, really switching roles.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_00] And when we were talking about it, something that I didn't know, my partner has a master's degree, but I did not realize that her undergraduate was in gender studies. And so, when I said that to her, her face lit up. And she's like, oh, my God. Yeah, we can totally do that. Like, we can do this. We can do that.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_01] And she had a positive reaction.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_00] Oh, totally.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01] There are some people I know who, gender studies background, a lot of gender theory, degrees, even profs, who regard, like, the big straight guy who wants to cross-dress. And for that being a kind of role reversal or a transgression against what it means to be a big straight guy, that that, for some people who have gender studies backgrounds, is problematic.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_01] Because it's the big straight guy being put into women's clothing, which are perceived as less powerful. That's him giving up his power through this gendered presentation that implies that there's something less powerful about being the woman in the situation. But that's not how your partner read it? Or you intended it?

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_00] No, I think for me, it was just kind of dipping my foot in a more feminine pool, you know? Just kind of exploring that other side of me. We're both bisexual. We are monogamous. But, you know, in the past, she's been in relationships with women and men. And I'm more, I don't know if we still use this term, heteroromantic.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, I play with men, but I don't, I've never been in a relationship with a man. And so, yeah, she had a very positive outlook about it. She's not from the U.S. And so her kind of European sort of attitudes, I think, are a little more open. She's a little less conservative.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_01] I want to dwell on heteroromantic for just a second. Yeah. Just to settle a score. Because until we came up with this term, heteroromantic, to describe for a lot of bisexual people, particularly bi guys, how their bisexuality expressed itself in a legitimate way, gay men would notice this. And we would be called biphobic for noticing this, that there were a lot of guys out there who wanted to fuck us but didn't want to date us,

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_01] who could have sex with men and enjoy sex with men and be good partners and good fuck buddies and good friends, but couldn't fall in love with us. And that went against what, you know, the received wisdom about bisexuality 40 years ago, 30 years ago, which was that somebody who can have sex or fall in love with somebody of either gender or now all genders. But gay men would be like, okay, bi guys were kind of a dating risk because if you wanted to date a bi guy, probably wasn't it.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01] Or there was a much higher chance that the bi guy wasn't it, which is not to say that every gay guy a gay guy dates wants to, or fucks wants to date him. That's not a guarantee, even if you're only getting with other gay guys. But hetero romanticism was something that gay men clocked in bi men before it had this empowering term. And we were called biphobic for clocking it.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_00] I mean, I don't know that I necessarily disagree with it. I do think it's a little bit of a double standard on my part. I don't disagree with that in that, yeah, I like to play with men, whether it's one-on-one or threesomes or group or, you know, whatever. I haven't met the person. It doesn't mean that maybe I couldn't have. I just never met a guy where I felt like, oh, I feel something here emotionally, romantically.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_01] And of course, this isn't true of all bi guys. I'm not saying bi guys are incapable of following. My best closest bi male friend is married to a man. Like I knew him when he had a girlfriend. He fucked around a lot. And then he fell in love with a man. So like bi romanticism and bisexuality often do come paired together. All right. So I do want to jump back to you get into this new relationship. Now you're married.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_01] You say from the very, from the jump, you guys were pegging.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_00] Like within, within the first month or two. Yeah.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_01] That's usually something that in an opposite sex relationship, there's often like a long, slow build or burn. But where that happens, how were you to just on that from the, from the start?

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_00] I will tell you, I just decided this time when I started dating that I was just going to be, if I was interested in someone and I felt romantic towards them and I felt like it might go somewhere and it could be a relationship. It's just going to be honest. And if they weren't into it, that's okay. I've had other partners who weren't into it.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01] I hope what you're saying now doesn't catch on because it would put me out of business because 90% of what I do is tell people, just tell your partner what you told me. Be honest. Say it.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00] When it turned out, I got, I mean, I hit the jackpot. It turned out not only was she okay with it. She was like, oh, I love that. That's great.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_01] She had some experience.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_00] Well, yeah. And I think in her previous female relationship, she had, I don't know about with men. I didn't ask.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_01] So let's talk about the, the, the cross-dressing. Yeah. Have you explored that or is it still a conversation?

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_00] No, no, we did it. We did it. We, we planned an extravagant day. We spent weeks cause we had to plan. I, you know, my, my kid sleep over at someone else's house. Cause we didn't want to just, we just didn't want to be confined to the bedroom. You know? We made a whole event of it. She actually came up with the idea of, well, let's not just get bedroom clothes. Let's like, let's get you an outfit and we can like hang out in the living room and in the kitchen and like spend some time.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_00] And we really went all out the morning of, we got up, we had breakfast. We went to the salon, uh, the nail place and I got my nails done. I got a manicure and pedicure and got color on them. You can see me. The audience cannot. I have a beard.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01] And great skin. We've already established that great.

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00] I shaved my beard completely off. I shaved my legs. Like we really did the whole thing. So I had like a daytime outfit. We spent like an hour or so hanging out, kind of just hanging out. We had like some drinks and we talked and we, you know, and then when we went upstairs, I changed outfits and, you know, and at that point it's like the slutty, you know, the heels and the, and the stockings and the garter and the, and the mesh top and the, all that kind of stuff.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00] I wore lipstick, uh, changed my hair a little bit to make it a little more feminine. And then, yeah. And then we, we played and had a fantastic time. It was really good. It was nice. I think there's an external component to changing your appearance that really changed how I approached the, the sexual component. I think it enabled me to kind of let loose in a way that a guy who looks like me normally

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_00] can't because the social norm is that, you know, you've got to be the big burly, whatever. And so it really kind of freed me to kind of relax. And she was very good about like, she was using feminine pronouns for me and which we had discussed beforehand. We had talked about what, what do you want? What do you not want? The actual sex was a little aggressive. The afterglow was more kind of lovey dovey and more sort of romantic and subtle. And then we even, she had, we'd even bought a nightgown that I wore and went to bed in that night.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_00] Like we went to bed together and wore a nightgown and then, yeah.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_01] Soup to nuts 24 seven.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_00] We were talking about it and I said, look, if we're going to do it, like let's do it. Let's, let's not tiptoe. Let's, let's go for it. If we don't, if I don't like it, then we know.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01] The bungee jump. I call it when you just go for it. So have you done it again? Was it just a one-time experience?

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_00] Uh, no, we have done it again. I will say there will be nights when we're, you know, or days when we're both at work and, you know, we kind of flirt a little bit on the texts or whatever. And she'll be like, tonight, I want you in the pink, whatever, or tonight I want you in your heels or, you know, whatever the case may be. And then, then we sort of know, okay, we're going to switch tonight.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_01] As someone who is a big guy, tall, muscular, there is this expectation you've said that, that you'll be the big burly guy that you'll be driving, that the sexual experience will be in control or the dominant. When you cross-dress, when you put on the pink thing at your partner's request, do you feel released from those expectations? Like, where this gets tricky is, like, to be the woman in an opposite-sex relationship or sexual

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01] experience is not necessarily to be the sub or the weaker party. But, like, it is in some ways. Like, women tend to be physically weaker than their male partners and more vulnerable. And submissiveness is a common sexual fantasy to be taken, to be controlled, physically dominated by their male partner. It's a common sexual fantasy for women that, like, a big guy might have a hard time tapping into that. And this can be a way of tapping into it through, like, gendered performance.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_01] Which I think if we acknowledge that it's not always the case that the woman is the sub or the weaker, that it's okay to use this as a key to unlock something for the guy that may be easier to tap into with these tools.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_00] The next night, the roles are often completely reversed. So we have no problem bouncing back and forth. And honestly, at this point, because the cross-dressing is just something I do in the bedroom, it's not something that I have an interest in going out in public or anything like that. I would say, for me at this point, it doesn't even feel like, oh, I'm being a girl or a woman. It feels like, oh, I'm going into a submissive, more feminine role, less dominant role.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_00] So I don't really see it like, oh, I'm being a woman right now. It's really just sort of a mental switch of, oh, okay, we're flipping the switch and I'm being, I'm allowed to kind of explore my feminine side.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_01] Right. Which the problem with this conversation or where it gets tricky is like, what do we mean by the feminine side? I know ferocious women who are doms and their femininity is legitimately expressed in this strength and ferocity. And I know men who are big and strong and very muscular who are subs and want that release, but they are almost kind of playing against expectations and type, which is a lot where

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_01] eroticism kink lives is when you're playing against transgressing. I think a lot of kink is eroticized fear, but also one of those fears is like, I think the instability of self is something that people explore through kink when they transgress against themselves, against the role that they're assigned or sometimes the role that they typically inhabit and are typically comfortable inhabiting. And I think it's really telling that you say that like one night you'll, you'll do this,

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_01] you'll get pegged, you'll wear the pink thing that she asked you to wear, told you to wear, and you'll be more tapped into the submissive part of yourself, which is femme coded maybe. And the next night you'll be more dominant. And I often see that with kink and fantasy exploration, where it's not just that when you're doing it, you feel not yourself, although it is a way to not be yourself, but then you feel more yourself when you come out of it in a way that is affirming and feels very authentic.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_00] I would say it's not that I don't feel my, like I'm myself, even when I did it, I still felt like myself. I still felt very comfortable with who I was. I felt, I think, I think less pressure. I think I was able to relax and like not be the one in charge and not be the one making the decisions and making the plans. And cause I'm, what is it? Pinkie pie or whatever from the cartoon where it's the party planner. And, and that's me.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_00] Like that is me almost every day, all the time.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_01] So maybe instead of me saying you're like not being yourself or being released from yourself or the performance itself, you're able to access this other part of you. That is true. And a part of your self or selves. It's a, it's a shade of me for sure. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Anything else?

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_00] I'm finally in, I think what is a really healthy relationship and that is an awesome feeling. And I think a big part of that is the, our level of communication.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_01] Well, I'm really happy about that. I hope it does not catch on that level of communication. Cause like I said, my job is telling people, Hey, did it occur to you to maybe communicate with your partner instead of me?

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_00] I got lots of damaged friends. I can send your wife.

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_01] Please do Scott. Thank you so much for coming on after action.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_00] Thank you.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_01] Thanks again, Scott. We're also glad you're in such a great relationship and that you can explore and then switch places. How much fun is that? If you tried something new, something fun, like Scott and his wife did write us about it, send it to Q at savage.love. And you might be my next guest. After action. After action. This episode of the Savage Lovecast is brought to you by load boost by VB health. Load boost is a supplement designed to improve the taste, the volume, and the overall health

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[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_01] That's loadboost.com and use offer code savage. Savage. Today's episode is brought to you by Love Unlimited, where you have 90 days to decide if you loved it. And if you didn't, they will help you find something better that you do. For a limited time, all toys are buy one, get one 50% off. Go to loveunlimited.com slash savage and get your toys or use code savage at checkout. Outro