Savage Love Episode 1040

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_05] Today's episode is brought to you by Love Unlimited, a sexual wellness retailer that carries brands like Lilo and B-Vibe, and nothing on the package that arrives at your house says what's inside. For a limited time, all toys are buy one, get one, 50% off. Go to loveunlimited.com slash savage or use code savage at checkout.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_08] You're listening to the Savage Lovecast, Dan Savage's sex and relationship show for grownups. If you're under 18, get out of here, young'un.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_05] Gonna be a short intro this week, but a good one, I hope. I always want to give it to you good, but quick. Basically, I just want to open the show this week with a shout out to Chris Gallant, the Democrat running for Congress in New York's first congressional district. You remember Gallant? He's the 37-year-old Black Hawk helicopter pilot who did a little modeling back when he was 20 for Mr. S. Leather, makers of some of the best bondage and fetish gear in the world.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_05] The old photos of Gallant surfaced, and he refused to drop out of the race. And more importantly, there were no calls for him to drop out of the race. I talked to Bud Gallant at the top of the show a couple of weeks ago and said with complete confidence that Gallant was kinky. Mr. S. Leather doesn't work with models who aren't kinky, and yeah, my husband has done some modeling for Mr. S. Leather, so I am telling on Terry here with his permission.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_05] I got a little pushback via email after I talked to Bud Gallant. How could I know he was kinky? Maybe he just did some modeling. Maybe he just needed the money. Maybe his ex, his boyfriend at the time, pressured him into it. Hmm, seemed a little kink-phobic to me, those emails. Like, the pics weren't as bad somehow. They weren't as incriminating. If you could make the case that Gallant, an openly gay man, was vanilla, actually.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_05] Well, now we know I wasn't out over my skis. I was topping them. Gallant sat for an interview with Jacob Bernstein from the New York Times, actually stood for most of the interview at a gun range. Bernstein is a reporter for the style section, not the news or politics sections, which is kind of a tell about how seriously the Times is taking this race. In the interview, Gallant confirmed that he didn't pose for those photos to build his modeling portfolio.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_05] Gallant posed for those photos almost 17 years ago, Bernstein writes, Not because he was manipulated, but because he was into it. I mean, all my friends know I'm kinky as hell, Gallant said, using a saltier word. I make Christian Grey look like amateur hour. Fucking A. That is the way to do it. You own it. Good for you, Chris. I hope you win this thing. Lux Alptrom, former editor of Fleshbot, which, along with its parent site Gawker,

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_05] was famous for publishing leaked photos of public figures, marked how far we've come in an opinion piece about Gallant, also for the New York Times, headlined, The Sex Scandal That Wasn't. Millennials and Gen Z now make up nearly half of the electorate, Alptrom writes. These generations have grown up online, documenting a wide range of formerly private moments in public. Being tagged in embarrassing photos has become a rite of passage. It's hard for millennials and Gen Z to work up outrage

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_05] when someone else's erotic exploits wind up in the tabloids. I would argue that the olds, Gen X boomers, the last remaining members of the silent generation, increasingly get it too. If we bar people from public life because they have a few racy photos out there, we're going to wind up with 100 Mitch McConnells in the U.S. Senate. Now, I want Gallant to win. I want him to go to the House. But Gallant is a long shot. He was always a long shot, as most of his district is in Long Island,

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_05] which hasn't been sending Democrats to Congress for a while now. But the fact that he's still in the race and he's still viable, that all by itself is a win for everyone under 40, kinky or not, who has one or two dirty picks out there somewhere. Which is another way of saying it's a win for everyone under 40 and a lot of people over 40. Having dirty picks out there, as I predicted, is following the same arc that using pot did politically.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_05] We can illustrate changing attitudes among voters to pot use in three presidents. Bill Clinton, accused of smoking pot, claimed he didn't inhale. George W. Bush wouldn't deny using recreational drugs, which was as good as confirming that he had, but he wouldn't admit to using them either. And then Barack Obama came along and said, of course I inhaled. That was the point. Now pot is a non-issue. I think we're going to see the same thing unfold.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_05] I think we are seeing the same thing unfold where dirty picks are concerned. In a few years, someone running for president is going to deny that's his dick in that pick that's all over the internet. That's the I didn't inhale stage. And then someone running for president is going to refuse to confirm or deny that his dick is the one we saw in that pick all over the internet. That's the George W. Bush phase. And then someone's going to come along and Barack Obama that shit and say, yeah, that's my dick in that pick.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_05] Not bad, huh? And so long as that dick pick wasn't unsolicited, it is not going to be a problem. In fact, I think one day we're going to feel weird voting for someone who's dirty picks we haven't seen. If a politician now says they've never once smoked pot, never got high at all, ever, most voters think, what? Did no one want to smoke pot with you ever? My God, even Amish kids smoke pot during their rum spring. I'm not voting for a loser who had no friends in high school to get high with.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_05] In the same way, one day I predict if a politician doesn't have at least one or two dirty picks out there, voters are going to think, what? You never sent a sexed message to anyone? I'm not voting for some loser who never sent a bathroom selfie to some hottie who wanted to see them with their clothes off. Which means, just like we've now had one or two or three presidents who've all smoked pot, one day we're going to have our first president, whose dick we've all seen.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_05] I'm just so, so glad it's not the president we have now. All right, coming up on this week's show, a hot bouncer at a BDSM club did what bouncers do, they bounced someone, and my caller now wants that bouncer to be her dom. How does she ask for that? A dad with adult kids wonders if he should come out to them as bisexual, even if he only sees men casually. And a straight man wonders if he should hook up with a woman who might be a hot mess.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_05] And on the Magnum this week, I have a great conversation with sex educator and first-time author Nikki Davis Feinbloom about her new book, Fetish, Smash Taboos and Celebrate What Turns you on. That is on the Magnum version of the show, the Magnum Savage Lovecast. More calls, more guests, no ads, more Savage Love, invites to Savage Love Live. Support the show and get more Savage Love by becoming one of my subs now at savage.love. And coming up on this week's After Action Report.

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_00] And then when we went upstairs, I changed outfits. And at that point, it's like the slutty, you know, the heels and the stockings and the garter and the mesh top and all that kind of stuff.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_05] Look for that new After Action Report in your feeds, micro and magnums alike this Friday. We have a date for our next quickie show, November 3rd. You know, we're all going to need distractions while we wait for those election results to come in. So if you have a quick question for me, one minute or less, get it to us now and I will answer it in two minutes or less. Record your cue, send it in to cue at savage.love or call or text us your question to 206-302-2064 or go to savage.love and click on Ask Dan.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_05] All right, on to our first call. This episode is brought to you by VB Health, doctor-formulated supplements that work. To learn more about Load Boost, Drive Boost, and Soaking Wet, and to get 10% off, visit vb.health and use the code SAVAGE. This episode is brought to you by Foria, makers of life-changing, all-natural, organic formulas for your most intimate needs.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_05] Right now, get 20% off your first order by going to foriawellness.com slash savage or by using code SAVAGE at checkout. This episode is brought to you by Beducated. Sex is a skill, really a skill set. And like any skill or set of skills, it can be learned, practiced, and mastered. Beducated offers more than 150 expert-led courses on everything from G-spot orgasms to mind-boggling oral techniques.

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[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_06] Hi, Dan, Nancy, and the tech savvy at Risk Youth. Mid-50s cis queer guy here in the Northeast, living in a big city, Magnum subscriber. My question is about coming out. Most of my life, I thought I was straight. And then, I mean, really, I thought I was straight. And then a few years ago, after an intense psychedelic experience, I realized I wanted to start exploring sex with men. I started dating men, and I've been doing so ever since from time to time. I also date women. And my experiences with men have been really fun.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_06] You know, they have sometimes turned into great friendships. Some have become close friends. I've been to bathhouses and sex parties and apps, you know, that sort of thing. And I'm at the point where I feel like I'm pretty clear on my sexuality. I don't think I'll end up in an intimate, serious relationship with a man, but I do enjoy the sex from time to time. So, you know, if I'm traveling, I head to a bathhouse sometimes or a gay beach or a gay club. And in my own city, I have lots of fun. You know, I'll go out with my gay friends or, you know, whatever, lots of things.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_06] And I don't really have romantic feelings for men, but I'm attracted to them not as frequently as I'm attracted to women. So I identify as queer. You know, my friends know me as queer, and I like being, you know, part of the queer community, but I'm not out to my family. So that's the question. You know, I have adult children. Children, they have plenty of gay friends and I'm sure they wouldn't care at all. They grew up in a big city and, you know, they know tons of gay people. My siblings wouldn't care either.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_06] But, you know, I'm outspoken about gay and trans rights and I volunteer for a prominent LGBTQIA plus organization. But there's a part of me that resists telling them because, you know, at the end of the day, we're not really talking about my being in relationships with men, are we? We're just talking about who I fuck? Is that their business? So on the other hand, I recognize that I live in quite a state of privilege. I can get away with appearing straight and have all the advantages of that. But to some degree, I think, you know, why should I even tell them? On the other hand, I think, what is there to be ashamed of?

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_06] Don't I want the people in my life to know me? So I'm not sure, Dan. I don't really talk to my family about who I'm dating. I'm divorced and I keep my dating life private. And if I meet somebody and it becomes serious, well, you know, I'll address that at the time. But this is a part of my life that I keep separate. So I guess I think I can already guess your advice. You know, you'll tell me to come out and why not, right? My therapist tells me that it's something I can decide at my own pace, at my own time, when I'm ready. But what am I waiting for?

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_06] But on the other hand, why do I need to do that at all?

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_05] Well, we've been treated to another round of discourse online about why bi people aren't out. But it's often said that bi people aren't out about being bisexual to the most important people in their lives, their families, because so many gay people are biphobic and so many straight people are biphobic. Like the reality, when you drill down, when you actually listen to bi people, which I have been doing now for 35 years,

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_05] and it is a privilege to listen to bi people, is that a lot of people who are bi don't come out because they don't have to come out. Because they're not bi romantic or they're not homoromantic and bisexual. They are heteroromantic and bisexual as you are. So your relationships, which is the public-facing part of your intimate life, your sex life, your romantic life,

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_05] your relationships are going to be opposite sex and you will default into being perceived as straight. And yeah, so you don't have to tell people that you're bi because you're not going to bring a guy home for Thanksgiving or you're not going to be dating a guy or getting into a relationship with a guy. And therefore you can avoid telling your kids or it may feel to you like telling your kids is,

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_05] like you said, telling them about who you fuck, which may not be anything that your kids need to know or want to know. And look, I'm not saying that as a gay person who came out to his mother when I was a teenager, who looked my mother in the eye and said basically, hey, I put dicks in my mouth, which was not an easy thing to tell my Catholic mom in 1980. If I could have avoided that conversation, I would have. I'm not more highly evolved. I'm not a better person.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_05] I was put in a situation where I had to be out to my family if I wanted to have the kinds of relationships with a public-facing component that I wanted to have. The romantic relationships, the committed relationships that I wanted to have. If I wanted to bring somebody home for Christmas, for Thanksgiving, that meant I had to tell. That meant I had to be out to my family. And that was really, really, really hard. And if I could have avoided that somehow, maybe I would have.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_05] And gay people did actually avoid having that conversation, but it required gay people, basically for fear of being rejected by their parents and siblings and families, to proactively, preemptively reject our families and siblings ourselves, to move far the fuck away from them and wall them off from our personal life and intimate life and hold them at arm's length so they couldn't fucking figure it out. I didn't want to live that way.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_05] Getting back to you and your question, should you tell your kids? I don't know why you wouldn't tell your kids. The kids who grew up in a big city, your kids who have gay friends, you're going to queer bars, you're hanging out with other LGBT people, you volunteer for a queer organization, for an LGBT rights group. Why wouldn't you tell your kids? Why not? It's just a fact about you.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_05] You can leave out the fact that you are only bisexual and not biromantic. You can leave that out. And you can let your kids assume, as so many people do, that all bi people, all bisexual people are also biromantic. And maybe then they'll think you're telling them because you might date a guy at some point and you wanted to know, or you wanted them to know, before you brought a guy home for Thanksgiving or Christmas, who is a romantic partner, which is never going to happen. But I don't see why you wouldn't tell them.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_05] And even if they were anti-gay or anti-bi, I think you should fucking tell them. That's what changed the world for gays and lesbians, coming out to people, coming out to family members, sometimes neighbors, sometimes employers, sometimes co-workers, who were hostile, who didn't know any gay people. There are a lot of people out there who are biphobic, and some of those people love. And some people who are biphobic are gay themselves, are fine with gay people, but have a problem with bi people.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_05] And so you should, for yourself and other bi people, and the greater good of the entire LGBT community, be out to the most important people in your life. That is, for sexual minorities and gender minorities, the only thing that changed the world, or the most important thing that we did to change the world. And if you're paying attention to the news, there's been some regression. Things were a little better for us a decade ago

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_05] than they seem to be, or than they are right now. And so right now, we need more people who are themselves LGBT, but not in a position where they felt they had to come out to the most important people in their lives, to err on the side of coming out to the most important people in your life, caller, and in your lives, listeners, other listeners, if you aren't out about your sexual orientation or gender,

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_05] if your gender is complicated, or you're trans, you need to be out. Everybody needs to be out. So, I sound a little tense. I have no problem with you, caller, and the way you live your life, and the choices you've made up to now. But the question you asked me, should you tell your kids, should you tell your siblings that you're bi? Yeah, I think you should, in a very matter-of-fact way. And it's not a conversation you're having

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_05] about the specifics or the mechanics of your sex life. You can leave out the part about bathhouses. You can leave out the butt-fucking. Just focus on you and letting them know you for who you actually are, which is not a straight guy or a straight-by-default guy, but a bi guy. And what were those drugs you took? What were those psychedelics? Yeah.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_05] That unlocked something. That's not how it always works, though. So you don't have to be afraid of ecstasy, mushrooms, acid, ayahuasca, straight guys out there. Not going to turn you gay or bi. I think, caller, you were already bi, but you just needed that insight. This episode is brought to you by Load Boost by VB Health. This doctor-formulated supplement offers increased semen volume, enhanced orgasm intensity, and even better taste, so your partner will thank you.

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[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_09] Hi, Dan. I am a 29-year-old queer person who lives in one of, like, the kink capitals of the United States calling to ask about, like, kinky and vanilla dating. So I feel like on your show, you frequently have discussed couples where one person is kinky, the other person is not, and the non-kinky person manages to sort of build up the kinky person

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_09] into the dom or sub or whatever that they always dreamed of. And I am a kinky person. I'm a sub and have been kind of increasingly prioritizing kink compatibility in dating. But what I've noticed is that I've dated people who are, like, independently kinky before and without me, and I've dated people who are GGG and are like,

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_09] well, if you, like, want to be spanked or bitten or whatever, I'll do it. Like, I'm happy to do whatever you want. But what I am noticing is different between those groups of people is that the people who are kinky independently of me just, like, know how to get inside my brain. There are things that I enjoy, like, love being restrained, you know, love being hit in some ways. And, like,

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_09] that is all fine. But it's the, like, psychological element that really gets me going and the rest of it is all sort of an accessory to that. And my GGG partners have been great at doing the hitting and the restraints and whatever. But I think the psychological component is what's missing. So my question is, should I just be dating people who are already kinky

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_09] or is there some magic formula to teaching this, like, psychological element of kink as well?

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_05] There are two kinds of guys, I like to say, that you meet at big gay fetish events like Folsom Berlin. You meet the guy who was tying himself up when he was 12 and you meet the guy who fell in love with that guy 10 years later, not when he was 12, when he was 22, when he was 26, fell in love with that guy. And now they're at Folsom Berlin, they're both in gear, they're both having kinky sex. In a way, the guy who was tying himself up when he was 12

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_05] built that kinkster. So when I talk about for people who are kinky, who are out there dating, who want partners, you can find a kinky partner or you can build one. I'm kind of talking about that. You come out to somebody about your kinks, but it's not that they are then forever just going through the motions, like, here's your bondage, here's your spanking, are you happy? But rather, when it comes to building that kinky person, that your kinks, you being honest with them about your kinks

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_05] and that person exploring your kinks with you opened a door in them, awakened something in them, helped them to recognize that they too were a kinky person. It's just that they hadn't ever looked at it squarely or accessed it. So when I talk about building that kinky person, maybe it's not so much building as unearthing. That kinky person was in there, in the guy who fell in love with the guy who was tying himself up

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_05] when he was 12, fell in love with that guy when he was 22. There always was that kinkster in the guy who thought he was vanilla until he met and maybe at first was going through the motions but then caught a groove and maybe it's a graft that took or maybe it's a well that was tapped that was just deep down in that person. So, here's what you do. Keep dating kinky people. Keep finding the kinky people

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_05] whose kinks align with yours that psychologically for you that connection works better. A lot of kinky people feel that way. Playing with someone who's vanilla, playing with somebody who isn't kind of complicit or implicated in the kink but somebody who is maybe you worry judging you or shaming you or rolling their eyes inside or wishes they were doing something else that can pull you out of the headspace where then you can enjoy pain and you can enjoy being restrained and being controlled and so go find those kinky people

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_05] who you won't have that problem with but give the guys or the people that you're dating who are vanilla that you open up to about your kinks give them a chance. At first it may feel like training wheels at first it may feel like they're going through the motions or just doing this for you but given a chance where maybe they go through the motions a dozen times they may catch a groove they may come to you or you may be speaking with them after sex

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_05] as part of after care and they will say man I'm really like starting to get off on this this is I'm starting to masturbate about this I'm starting to like this is yeah this is awesome thank you for this and then you will have unearthed a kinky person or built a kinky person then you will be the person at the big fetish event who was tying herself up when she was 12 who was there with her loving boyfriend or loving husband or loving partner who wasn't consciously aware

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_05] that there was something in them that enjoyed power play until they met somebody that they had feelings for who helped them discover that about themselves and that is how you build a kinky person but if you can't be bothered if that's too much work or too much emotional investment you can decide only to date only to play with other people who arrived kinky

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_05] that limits you that makes your kink then a funnel it narrows your options when it comes to partners if you never give the vanilla or presumed to be vanilla partner a chance what I wish for you in the future is that you date kinky people vanilla people but that you have a Yahtzee where you tell somebody that you thought was vanilla because you met them in a vanilla context and you've been having vanilla sex where you're going through the motions of having vanilla sex and then you tell

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_05] them about your kinks and they look at you and go oh my god me too well maybe not me too we don't use that phrase anymore in this context oh my god same same and I was worried I was afraid to tell you for fear of scaring you off oh my god here's my box of toys here's my red room I hope that happens for you if it doesn't happen for you I hope you find the right kinkster if you don't find the right kinkster I hope you find the right normie who under your tutelage and in your thrall

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[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_07] Hi there Nancy and all the tech savvy at risk youth I am a 30 year old bi poly woman and I have a question about how to approach someone and ask them to be your daughter so back in March I have attended a sex party with my current partner and there I met one of the angels so a girl who was patrolling the playroom to make sure that everything runs smoothly

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_07] and I saw her deal with unwanted attention from a man to a woman beautifully like in a very badass way and she threw the guy out and called security she handled it perfectly and we started chatting a little bit after that and she told us that she's a dom and she's kinky for the past few months I have been exploring with my boyfriend DS

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_07] dynamic but he says that he doesn't really feel like a dom and that he at the moment because of stuff going on in his life that he doesn't have the mental resources to engage in a DS play of some kind I was wondering I will probably be seeing her again because we will attend the same sex party at the end of next month and I will probably see her again and I

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_07] would like to chat her up again and probably ask her if she's willing to have a connection with me and possibly that connection could lead to DS and her becoming my dom and I was wondering if you have any pointers to how to approach a situation like this I don't have her number or her social media info so it will have to be

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_07] in person what do you think

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_05] you are overthinking this you're into her before you ask her to take you to the prom sorry before you ask her to be your dom you need to establish whether she's interested whether she's accepting applications for new partners whether she's playing with anybody right now you're clearly interested is the feeling mutual then you ask her to play at this sex party or some other time you ask for a play date

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_05] not a dom sub commitment ceremony asking someone to be your dom is like asking someone in kink land in certain circles to be your boyfriend or girlfriend it is a lot to ask someone you just met that is a commitment in kink land what you want to do right now is ask her to play sometime see if there's a connection if the play goes well and there's a connection and it's a vibe then you can play again and then you you can start thinking

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_05] about talking about asking about whether they would want to be your dom or collar you as their sub or whatever it is that you're fantasizing about but bear in mind that when you ask out someone in her position she works at this sex party she is one of the angels she's a bouncer she is keeping her eye on the crowd she is a staffer it's a little like asking out the bartender or the bar back or the door

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_05] guy a lot of people are asking out the bartender the bar back the door guy by dint of being the bar back the bartender the door guy they are having interactions with probably everybody or most of the people in the club that night and those interactions as small as they with her because you talked with her for a hot minute after

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_05] she bounced to the guy who was not respecting other people's boundaries was making women feel uncomfortable that was the icebreaker and you may have felt a vibe in that moment but the people who work at the club the angels the bartenders the door people the coat check people if they're good and friendly they may be not being nice to you or engaging with you because there's interest on their part but just because they're being polite and friendly it is a

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_05] service position service job service occupation so yeah I've been there I have asked a bartender out who I was pretty sure was flirting with me turned out he was just tending bar he was just getting me a drink so I would encourage you I'm not saying don't hit on her I'm glad I hit on that bartender I'm glad I had that in me I wish I had that in me in the end didn't glad I hit on the bartender ask her

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_05] she might have other play dates lined up or she might not be interested in you the way you are interested in her which is not to say you shouldn't go and hit on her you should and then

[00:33:36] if

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_05] you click you can have a conversation down the line several I would say at least a dozen play dates in the future about whether she my famous acronym on being a good lover GGG good giving and game beducated is the way to learn the good part how to be good in bed intimacy isn't something you do on autopilot sex is a skill and like any skill it can be

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[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_03] a toxic relationship and i need your advice on how to help them they are a male presenting envy who was 22 and single when they went abroad for work four years ago my wife and I had an amazing parent and child relationship with them they were amiable fun sociable kind generous and an all-around great person who

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_03] is three years older we just arrived for our second visit with our child and are horrified by how they have changed when they're with us we see glimpses of the person that we used to know but when they are with the girlfriend our child is a different person and it's obvious that the two of them are in a feedback loop together they are sarcastic critical of the world impatient condescending our child has been controlling with us

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_03] constantly corrects us they're distant and cold and they don't even hug us with caring and love like they always have and like they did when we were last visiting two years ago during those two years our video chats with them have become less frequent and the topics are less about our child's thoughts and feelings and more about their daily activities talked about having trouble making friends and it's clear that their social circle consists

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_03] mostly of the girlfriend her behavior is a series of mind games and manipulations for example she asked us to bring her a specific brand and size of leggings for a visit and then when we arrived she said they were the wrong size and gave them back to us then later when we were out sightseeing she let herself into our child's apartment to leave a bag of chips as a quote gift she's always feeling sick or needs something from our child and they are always at her beck and call

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_03] which plays to their generous and people-pleasing nature but now all that wonderful character that they used to make available to the world is only directed at her and we in the world only receive their increasing intolerance we're heartbroken because we feel like we've lost our child and we're desperate to help them

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_05] there's nothing you can do anything you say to your kid about his girlfriend their girlfriend pardon me can and will be used against you it will fuel whatever this stage that your kid is going through where they are separating themselves from you and your spouse emotionally physically and using this shitty girlfriend perhaps or leaning on this shitty girlfriend to engineer this separation I am really sorry sounds like

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_05] you had a really great relationship with your kid you were really close for a very long time kids though go through a phase they go through a stage where they separate themselves from their parents emotionally physically often it

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_05] they they they see that this person is awful and toxic and not good for them and doesn't bring out the best in them and has caused them to become estranged from the parents or the family of origin that they love they will dump this fucking person but it has to be them doing it for themselves if they think that they're doing it or they need to do it for mom and dad or you put them in a position where they're defending

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_05] this girlfriend to you their pride will get mixed up in it they won't want to admit that you were right and they were wrong and it becomes another reason why you potentially extended the life of this relationship that you want to see your kid get the fuck out of so you're home you're not having to interact with her you're not having to interact with your child on a daily basis if you must say your piece just once don't think they're good for you and then shut your fucking mouth

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_05] bide your fucking

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_02] attracted to older women I have all kinds of people been talking to on the dating profile and this person shows up on one of the profiles who used to it turns out worked at the cleaners that I went to in town over and I checked this person out before

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_02] conversations dating profile shows up and it says some stuff on there like that she could be with that girl and like I'm surprised to see those things but I match with her and say hey you know funny to see you on here breaking your connection she matches with me and says yeah hey nice to see you so funny and you know we chit-chat a little bit and then I say would you like to you know continue

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_02] the conversation to chat here in this dating environment and she says sure and the conversation gets really kind of exciting and extraneous phone numbers start talking over text message even call or two very sexual very explicit this person is really awesome so that's the good side the but of course that comes at the end is just that she seems to have a lot of craziness going on in her life she texts to me at 1 1.30 in the morning and she is arriving at the bar

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_02] one of her bars she frequents a couple in the city and is most people there she's a regular customer there I don't judge anybody drinking it sounds like she's driving there and back so there's drinking in the driving situation she she did a hot mess I'm just a little concerned getting involved and it wouldn't be for dating it would definitely be for sex and it sounds incredible and I'm just want to get your feedback

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_05] we used to say don't stick your dick in crazy but that's ableist we don't say that anymore maybe we should say don't stick your car that she likes to hang out in at 1.30 in the morning and texted you someone she's been sexting with that's kind of you up text

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_05] 1.30 in to the bar sober and text everybody that she wants to fuck and have one of them come and get her and then go fuck that person I just don't yeah I don't see

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_05] how you don't have that she is a bad girl and pretty sexually adventurous and made a kind of instant sexual and erotic connection with you maybe this is just normal

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_05] for her and not chaos maybe this isn't messy maybe this is her normal and maybe you just have cold feet and you're over interpreting the evidence that you have unless you have evidence you didn't share with me that this woman is a mess in order to talk yourself out of fucking her I think you could go ahead and fuck her and see and if it is super messy well then you could block her if you're

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_05] worried that she might be super messy or she's gotten too attached to you too quickly or it's become too much too soon well maybe that first time you fuck her which she's up for too could knowing where you live but I'm not convinced I'm not going to let you tell me that this woman is a hot mess and then all you got is she texted you at 1.30 in the morning from a bar she likes to hang out in

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_05] deal already she's only going to wait around and keep pinging you and texting you for so long she sounds like a woman with options is what I'm saying if you

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_05] didn't hit right for me I found it offensive when he compared a woman being gang raped to a man who sets himself up in a hotel room to be a cum dump whoa whoa that was not the comparison I was making I compared a man having a sexual adventure to a woman choosing to have a sexual adventure and the starkly different outcomes Wyla got it your intro Dan talking about

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_05] for years men see other men as full people with wishes and desires and preferences that even if you are disappointed to hear them you need to respect men do not see women that way says Julia what stays with me about the intro to last week's show is straight men you wonder why women don't act like gay men it's because you do not treat them like men thank you Dan says Oberani about my conversation with sex therapist Claire Perlman my eyes rolled so hard at

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_05] Claire when Dan correctly pointed out that straight men are far more accepting of bi partners than straight women and Claire had to spin it as bad actually no gold stars for being more accepting of bisexuality straight fellas says dimple and dumples I do agree that we straight men should get at least a kudos for being more accepting of bi partners maybe with a caveat maybe Claire could have said way to go straight men so long as you aren't saying yes for fetish reasons I've had some guys say yes to me for fetish

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_05] reasons I you can also send us your comments via text at that same number 206 302 2064 you have my digits use them and now Savage Love listeners who called in or texted us comments about last

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_05] week's show get to have the last word on this week's show

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_11] hey Dan calling with a comment on your Cornell intro I'm not saying that what you said was wrong per se but I think you're missing what's going on here which is you have a group of men in their late teens early 20s drunk probably high on who knows what and group takes over and the worst of people

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_11] and specifically men comes out I was in a fraternity when I was in college and I deeply regret that decision to be in a fraternity I know how they operate I know how they work they have long outlived their usefulness and they should be disbanded immediately so again it's not that what you said was wrong it's that what happened here was of a different reason

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_11] and it's equally awful and it can be prevented if people make the right decision and get rid of fraternities

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_10] hey Dan I'm calling in response to episode 1039 and the woman who found out that her husband had placed a hidden camera in their bedroom and had been watching her for 10 months my heart just sank when I heard this call because I

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_01] who was moving in with his boyfriend, but worried about not getting equity by putting money into a travel fund. I'm a mortgage loan officer. The money you are not paying in rent or housing is your equity. You are saving boatloads of money in this situation. Take that money, invest it in the stock market or bonds or high yield savings account. That is equity.

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_01] Giving someone money for housing and investing it into a house is one form of that. But the savings you are getting on housing is way more valuable than a few hundred dollars of equity into the house that you would otherwise be putting with that travel fund. And we are going to leave it

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_05] there. Got a question for me? Got a comment for us? Go to savage.love slash ask Dan to record and upload your question or your comment directly onto our website, or you can email us a voice memo at q at savage.love or give us a call at 206-302-2064. You can also text us your voicemails at that number. And if you tried something new and you want to tell someone all about it, tell me. Email us at q at savage.love. Tell us what you tried and you might be my next guest

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_05] on After Action Report. The Hump Fall Tour is underway and we have an amazing new lineup of sexy and creative films for you. And you too can be a Hump Star. Submissions for the 2027 Hump Film Festival are due in just over a month. Grab a friend, grab your phone, and bring your hot, kinky, weird ideas to life on film. It is free to submit and Hump pays our filmmakers whose films make it into the festival.

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_05] We want to see you on the big screen. So submit your film by Friday, November 6th. Head to humpfilmfest.com slash submit for all the info you need. Follow me at bluesky at dansavage. Follow me on Instagram at dansavage. Follow Nikki Davis Fainbloom on Instagram at missbloomsexeducator. And for all things Nikki, and to get a copy of her terrific book, go to her website, nickidavissf.com. The Savage Love Cast is produced every week by Nancy Hertunian.

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_05] And me and Nancy and the tech savvy at risk youth, we will all be back at you next week on installment of the Savage Love Cast. Thank you as ever for telling me. Today's episode is brought to you by Love Unlimited, where you have 90 days to decide if you loved

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_05] it. And if you didn't, they will help you find something better that you do. For a limited time, all toys are buy one, get one 50% off. Go to loveunlimited.com slash savage and get your toys or use code savage at checkout.